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Author Topic: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING  (Read 2437 times)
laurencasualty
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2011, 07:04:30 PM »

aside from the bottom sitting she seems absolutely fine, can't find anything wrong with her on the outside, the fungus is gone and she's always begging for food like normal. lately i've been having isses trying to find a good feeding balance (how often and how much) so her food intake has been rather sporadic; hope that's not bothering her. i was going to give her a pea today because i think i may have overfed her one day and it has perhaps messed up her system since, but there werent any at the caf  Sad
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Nossie
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2011, 06:22:16 AM »

A very good feeding schedule is twice a day, you feed her when you turn lights on, and half an hour (or so) before you turn them off Smiley
That way she'll also get a good rhythm with her daily activities and know when the food's coming Wink

When it comes to the amount of food, with just one fish about 4-5 mini pellets should do the trick, while my fantails were growing up I was feeding them Hikari Staple and Hikari Goldfish Gold. Very god size on those pellets and they come in re-sealable bags, so you don't have to worry about the food getting spoiled Smiley
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Goldiegirl
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2011, 02:27:48 PM »

You mentioned you hadn't had a chance to purchase a gravel vacuum. This, I think, part of your ammonia issue - syphoning is ESSENTIAL.

What happens when neglecting your gravel vacuum is that poo and uneaten food accumulate at the bottom of the tank and start to create massive ammounts of ammonia. Simply taking out a bit of water from the surface and pouring new water in will not solve your problem in the least! Your fish will only continue poisoning themselves as more and more waste is passed through the fish.
 
Syphons are usually inexpensive ($11 roughly in the U.S. for a 10 gallon, $15 for a 30 gallon, and so on). They work relitively quickly as the flow of the water pulls out waste from the bottom of the tank but leaves the gravel (so nice!).

Until you get a gravel vacuum, you can try using a turkey baster to suck out waste from in the gravel, or build your own temporary one out of cheap plastic hose with a bit of screening rubber banded to one end.

As long as you don't vacuum the gravel, your ammonia will still keep on growing as more and more accumulates in the water.

Hope this helps!  Smiley
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laurencasualty
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2011, 05:15:46 PM »

i dont understand how the gravel vacuum works without pulling out all your water, i guess the directions will help lol
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Skwishee
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2011, 05:06:41 AM »

Well the gravel cleaner itself is usually not very big, so it can only pull so much water at a time.

The instructions will explain it, but if you have any problems just ask us here Smiley
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laurencasualty
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2011, 08:06:39 PM »

haha thanks, i think i understand it now lol i found a video and it looks quite simple actually  Tongue
aaaand there were peas in the caf today so i took a bunch and stuck them in my freezer  Grin

couple questions?
tetra bloodworms: these are safe, right? cuz there's a warning about don't breath the dust or touch it and i feel like if its that dangerous i shouldn't be feeding it to my fishie ya know?
jungle salt: is this a good salt to use?
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Goldiegirl
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2011, 09:51:36 AM »

Cool, cool. Using a syphon is so easy; you simply pull it out when you've taken enough water out. Wink

About the peas, they are fine to freeze, de-thaw, and feed to your goldfish. Just make sure they weren't cooked with butter...too rich for goldies.

I use tetra bloodworms to feed my goldies once a week. Some people have a mild allergy to them when they breathe the dust that comes out when you open the jar. It DOES make your fingers itch like the dickens if you take a pinch...for me anyways....so it is better to pour some out into a cup of tank water, soak 'em for a little bit, then use a turkey baster, toothpick, or something else to serve them to your goldfish. Goldfish have no "mild allergy" to this tasty treat, and you don't need to worry about them consuming bloodworms. Just make sure that you don't feed it to them too often - 2-3 times a week is recommended on the package I believe, but I usually stick to once or twice a week.

Jungle salt: perfectly fine to use for your fish. It is a fish-safe brand that you don't have to worry about, though some people just use natural sea salt that is non-iodized instead. You should add a .3% concentration to your water when you are trying to be rid of illness...meaning 3 tablespoons of pre-disolved salt (in tank water) for every 10 gallons of water you have.

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Skwishee
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2011, 10:07:28 AM »

Rock salt is also a possibility Smiley
Just make sure there are no other ingredients as some salt brands have added agents in them, it'll tell you on the label though ^_^
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Nossie
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2011, 09:25:32 AM »

About the vacuum: Here's a thread where I explain how to use a vacuum, including pictures Smiley -> (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)

I have honestly never noticed any problems with "mild allergy" or anything when giving blood worms to my fish, they're absolutely safe to feed your fish, no question about it. Provided of course you choose reputable brands, like Tetra, JBL, Sera, Omega One and the like Smiley
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laurencasualty
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2011, 03:33:02 PM »

nossie: i found that thread before, that was the video i was talking about (:

so here goes my cry of utter frustration.......
i was watching eva last night and noticed a circular bulge sticking out of the right side of her tummy. the scales are missing where the skin is being stretched. this was NOT there friday when i left campus. sigh. she's acting lethargic and is currently hiding in her sphinx; last night she was floating at the top of the water, like she would if she were eating, but she was just well floating there like a very sad fish  Cry her appetite is normal. going to try and get some pics tonight after fencing practice.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2011, 03:35:33 PM by laurencasualty » Logged
laurencasualty
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2011, 05:39:09 PM »

i'm worried my poor little girl may be dead in her sphynx  Cry i haven't seen her since this morning when i gave her breakfast and i'm too scared to lift up the sphynx and look  Cry if i finish my homework before class and have time to, i'm going to lift up the shynx...  Sad

she is alive!! but still floating awkwardly at the surface with her dorsal fin back. she can dive down and swim but seems to have difficulty staying below the surface. she is also flashing a bit. i wonder if something is wrong with her swim bladder. i am thawing a pea as i type this.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2011, 06:02:32 PM by laurencasualty » Logged
Ron H
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #41 on: November 08, 2011, 01:20:16 AM »

It sounds like a swimbladder disorder, I have some info (following this) taken from the forums on this site... (credits to the usual suspects  Wink )
swim bladder : The Fancy goldfish in general seem to have this problem, high levels of nitrates, not soaking their food and bad water quality can cause this.  A goldfish's small stomach swells and puts pressure on the swim bladder hence the floating behavior, or if your goldfish is constipated its digestive tract is clogged up, and again puts pressure on the buoyancy organ.

I had this prob with Snowie when I first got her, I presume I, or whoever had her before me was overfeeding her... Peas are a good place to start, I shell them and soak them in a little cup of epsom salts for a hour or so, then cut them up and feed to the fish... I also have her trained to eat off a toothpick so sometimes if I forgot to soak them, I just stab the pea piece, dip it in epsom salt granules so a few stick to it, and feed it to her off the toothpick... thankfully she is over it now, I noticed it was really bad when feeding her flakes, soaked or not soaked... I have also halved the amount of food I was giving all my fish...
Hope this is of some help... cheers and good luck...
« Last Edit: November 08, 2011, 02:26:06 AM by Ron H » Logged
Nossie
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #42 on: November 08, 2011, 04:08:05 AM »

The bulge is a sign of either parasite infestation or an internal bacterial infection.
Did you change the water before you left? ALWAYS do that, a larger (75%) water change before you leave her will keep her safe and sound until you get there again.

I'd feed her peas, like Ron says, and you should try treating the water with something, you could try adding some natural rock salt to the tank in a 0.3% concentration. If you can find some, Epsom salts would also be a good idea, it's used to treat everything from swim bladder disorders to dropsy Smiley
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laurencasualty
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #43 on: November 08, 2011, 08:58:38 PM »

so if its something internal, what do i do? i'm going to add the salt tonight. i fed her a pea but i had to force her out of her sphynx because she won't come out of her own aynmore  Sad
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Skwishee
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #44 on: November 09, 2011, 04:18:55 AM »

I'm so sorry to hear about little Eva.

First let's see if the salt and pea helps her out, if it doesn't, then it would point to her issue being something other than constipation/swim bladder and that she'd need something else to help her out.

If it is something internal, don't worry, you can purchase medicated food such as medi gold (or buy products to soak food in) that the goldfish will eat and then the medicine will work from inside the fish, which is ideal for internal problems and because your feeding the medicine, it usaully won't upset the bacteria in the tank Smiley

But before you go rushing out to buy things, make sure you know what it is your dealing with okay?
A mistake lots of people can make is to start putting in/giving medications when their not 100% sure what the fish has, this can often make the fish worse and cause alot of un necessary stress.

You're doing a good job Smiley Give Eva a little bit of time and let us know if the salt and peas help her, I'm sure members here like Nossie can recommend medications if that is the appropriate route you need to take, she has been exceptionally helpful with that kind of thing, when I too have needed a helping hand! I also have a little knowledge on medicine products but I've not had experience of them, so I can only tell you what I've read XD

All the best for little Eva!
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 04:23:13 AM by Skwishee » Logged
laurencasualty
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #45 on: November 09, 2011, 12:24:19 PM »

Thank you..<3 I'm confused because she seemed to be showing swim bladder issues (having trouble staying down in the tank and she would flip on her back briefly when she got caught in the filter current) but now she is sitting on the bottom of the tank sometimes floating crooked (laying sideways leaning on things). She is refusing to eat and continuing to hide in the corners. I think she's dying  Cry Cry I don't know what to do anymore and im so sad she's like this.. I wonder if I should just put her to sleep; she looks awful. Could she have dropsy? Cry
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 01:24:28 AM by laurencasualty » Logged
Ron H
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #46 on: November 10, 2011, 04:26:24 AM »

I have been looking back thru theis thread and was wondering what your water temp is laurencasualty Huh if its cold the fish will be sluggish, its metabolism will slow down and it wont need to eat as much and will bottom sit a lot of the time... In colder water the fish may take more time to recover from some illnesses, I apoligise if you have already looked at this...

also if you cant get the fish to eat the epsom salt soaked peas, I have read you can add it to the tank water at 1 tbsp per 10 gallons, this works better in warmer water... and thanks Nossie for setting  me right on the distended abdomin, I wish my brain was still like a sponge, at your age mine was absorbing all it could about birds (the feathered variety and humies, Cheesy )... cheers all
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Nossie
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #47 on: November 10, 2011, 05:59:28 AM »

Why of course Eva has buoyancy problems, her belly is distorted, which is pressing on her swim bladder Undecided
Did you add the salt yet?

When one of my orandas started showing signs of being misshaped like this, I didn't have any type of anti-bacterial medicine, and in the end his belly turned red (Sign that the infection had spread 'til it showed on the outside). He died from that and also displayed symptoms of dropsy. So if you have access to medicated food, please get that asap! I noticed that the brand I have is very dense, so you may need to crush the pellets and then give them to Eva, especially if she's a little smaller.

If you notice symptoms like these it's important to act as soon as you get advice on what to do, internal infections can be horrible to treat!! And basically impossible if you wait, even a day can be too late. So if you didn't, test the water, change a big portion of it and add conditioner, beneficial bacteria and salt. Then go look for some medicated food.
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laurencasualty
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #48 on: November 10, 2011, 07:13:13 AM »

yes i did all that (with the jungle satlt, not epsom), minus the large water change (didn't notice that being part of the plan) i just haven't had time to get medicated food (or epsom salt). and i'm not sure how to feed her if she won't eat...  Undecided i can't really force her to eat, wouldn't that cause lots of stress and prob just be ineffective anyway. also i don't know what my water temp is, i just figured it's normal room temp because these rooms are a bit warm if anything, but cetainly not cold. and pardon my ignorance but i just don't understand how she has buoyancy problems but isn't floating anymore, i thought that made them float. i'm all knew to this, remember. sigh. best get back to writing my conservation plan. need to finish it up and turn it in in less than an hour. i won't be able to leave campus until 5 to get anything because i'm so swamped with work and classes. that's how yesterday was, only i couldn't leave at all. grr.

what brand of medicated food do you recommend, like what should i look for? if it's not already too late ( Sad ) i may see if i can somehow finish my work in between the free space between my two labs and get someone to drive me to the store. although i doubt it's a possibilty..  Sad
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 07:15:48 AM by laurencasualty » Logged
laurencasualty
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #49 on: November 10, 2011, 07:05:42 PM »

R.I.P. Eva Feesh-face  Cry Cry Cry Cry

i felt like an id*ot sitting on my bed holding a dead fish in my hands and crying.. sigh.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 07:08:52 PM by laurencasualty » Logged
Ron H
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #50 on: November 10, 2011, 11:37:32 PM »

Sorry to hear that lauren, we have all been there and feel your loss ... and dont be to hard on yourself, Its not your fault when pet stores continue to give NO or bad advice to people when selling them fish...  Im sure you have learnt a lot from Adolf and Eva as well as from the gang here (consider it their legacy and remember them fondly for it), which should benefit your future fish should you decide to try again... all the best for your studies.... > Ron
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Nossie
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #51 on: November 11, 2011, 06:12:09 AM »

Really sorry about your loss Sad Know how it feels sitting there not being able to do anything and the worst part being "I'm not entirely sure how to deal with this..." and by the time one'd get the advice, it's too late or the products are unavailable.

Buoyancy problems mean everything from floating and sinking to swimming in a tilted and unnatural fashion, the swim bladder is used to keep the fishes' balance not only to keep it at a certain level in the water Smiley
And remember for next time, the water change is crucial! The water is what made her sick in the first place, so if you won't fix that problem, there's no way she'd get better. Water quality is the first priority always when it comes to keeping goldfish healthy. Next priority is a varied diet with vegetables and live foods.

Are you going to get any new fish, or will you wait until you're finished with school?
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Skwishee
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #52 on: November 11, 2011, 09:31:35 AM »

I'm so sorry to hear about Eva  Cry

I wish you all the best and echo what Ron says, don't be too hard on yourself, you did everything you could.
There is always the option of having goldfish again in the future if that's something you wanted to do Smiley
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laurencasualty
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #53 on: November 11, 2011, 11:50:12 AM »

ron: thanks, i deff did learn a lot from my little guys and from all the awesome people on this forum; i love you all (: you make me feel better.

nossie and skwishee: i'm not sure yet whether i'm going for another fish or not. i never knew they were so much work.. i've read a lot of threads on here and it seems like people with multiple fish are frequently dealing with sick one, or am i just misjudging this? anyway, if i do go for another one, what do i need to do with the tank (besides wait for it to cycle, duh  Tongue) do i need to "disinfect" it somehow? i'm guessing eva indeed did have an internal infection (she turned yellow and, err, started to split open on the side, hence me holding her and bawling going "omg my poor baby she was so sick"  Cry)

also, simply out of curiosity, when i removed her from the tank i examined her to try to figure out what had been going on and noticed that where she was splitting (where the bulge was) was a hard mass. so basically the bulge was a large mass that ended up almost pushing its way out... what could this have been? an infected body part? a tumor? my poor little eva darling  Sad Sad

nossie: so even though the ammonia was just labelled as "caution" on the water test chart (not "stress" or "dangerous") that is what made her sick, or at least susceptible to becoming sick? i mean i know it's not ideal to be above 0, but i didn't realize it was bad enough to cause deadly disease  Sad
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 11:53:01 AM by laurencasualty » Logged
Ron H
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #54 on: November 11, 2011, 07:10:42 PM »

Cheers Lauren, I know that birds and animals can live with a variety of parasites and appear quite well, problems start to occur when the bird/animal becomes stressed or is lacking nutrients etc  from an improper diet, although your problem with Eva sounds like it may have been a tumor or something similar and could even be something genetic... maybe Nossie has seen this before... again sorry for your loss. > Ron
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fantailer
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #55 on: November 12, 2011, 06:26:15 AM »

laurencasualty I don't think it was caused by the ammonia I think the parasite lives in ammonia filled water a went for its closest prey.
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Nossie
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #56 on: November 12, 2011, 12:23:36 PM »

Actually, once the tank is cycled and correct sized, you don't need to worry about sick fish at all Smiley I have had mine set up for about 16 months now, and only had to treat sick fish four times during all that time Smiley (One was just a light case of fungus, but still, better safe than sorry.)

It's pretty possible that she simply couldn't handle being exposed to the ammonia for the time she was, and especially if she got an infection it probably just pushed her over the edge having to be weakened by the ammonia as well. That's just how they work, and ammonia is incredibly toxic, slightest concentration will hurt the fish one way or the other Undecided

About the hard growth... One of my orandas had something like that, it was the one with the bacterial infection (reddened belly) and dropsy. He had two, maybe three of varying size so he looked all bulky and strange, I do think it might have been some tumors or simply some bumps caused from the infections, like swellings or cysts with pus.
When it's something that starts looking so bad that it distorts the fishes' shape, there's rarely anything that can be done Sad It's really horrible. I cried even while the little baby was alive, just because he seemed to be struggling (still eating though) to do anything.

If you want, you could try washing the tank with bleach, but when I clean out my quarantine system, I usually just wash everything in tap water, since it contains chlorine it usually gets the job done anyway Smiley
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cheri_alexander
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #57 on: November 12, 2011, 10:38:16 PM »

Sorry for your loss, I've been lurking on this thread awhile and was sad to read that Eva died. Don't be discouraged. My Michael-Quincy died when I first started but since then I have learned everything I can. I have had 9 fish for about 15 months and they haven't been ill once.
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Skwishee
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #58 on: November 13, 2011, 06:29:34 AM »

I'm sorry to hear Eva was in such bad shape at the end Embarrassed

From what I've read Lauren as Nossie has pointed out, is that with good water quality, a good diet and a suitably sized aquarium/adequate filtration, goldfish will be fine. They may get ill, but there is usaully a reason for it.

For example in Summer Time's thread about fin rot, she discovered there was an area in the filter that she wasn't cleaning where gunk had built up and bacteria could possibly have grown there and then infected the fish. Once that had been discovered and the fish treated, she's now reported that their fine and fins are growing back  Smiley

Also sometimes when the water quality is bad, it can cause fish to become stressed, which may make them more susceptible to diseases, or it could be something the fish was carrying the entire time and you just hadn't known (this is why quarantining new fish is important because you never know what they may have).

When you mention about people with multiple fish, it could be that their tank is over stocked, too many fish in too small a space, this is also a reason why illness can come about.

You could always keep a different type of fish for a while, or go for something completely different like snails or shrimp! There are plenty of options for your 10 gallon, than having just one goldfish Smiley
I wish you all the best with whatever you decide to do!
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laurencasualty
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Re: 1 oranda in 10 gal tank currently CYCLING
« Reply #59 on: November 13, 2011, 09:18:24 PM »

In Memory of Adolph and Eva <3
« Last Edit: November 13, 2011, 09:39:55 PM by laurencasualty » Logged
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