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Author Topic: A fantail with some problems...  (Read 1977 times)
Max B.
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A fantail with some problems...
« on: July 16, 2010, 03:54:32 PM »

Greetings all!

I want to introduce myself - I am Max and I am really glad to find a forum community dedicated to goldies... I have a 10G rectangular fish tank and small fantail who is living with us for less then a week.

An using this opportunity I would like to ask a few questions:

1) As it is rather hot here in Canada this month the water temperature is rather high to my belief for my fishie - 86 F right now. How bad is it to have the fish in such a warm water apart from less oxygen available to it? (remark, I am having Penn Plax internal filter Cascade 300 with the long pipe for aeration)

2) How would you chill the water?

3) The fish has some small black spots on its tail - apparently that should have been ammonia burns as I have tested the water and my results show normal now to my knowledge.

pH- 75, Ammonia - 0, Nitrite - 0,1, Nitrate - 5. I have used the liquid tests of Nutrafen. (the same result for three days consecutively)

4) Is it normal for a fish to hide? Or is it a sign of stress? I attach the image of the fish. As far as I have noticed as well, the fish has lost at least one scale.

I have done a few water changes 10-20% during these 5 days and I have added salt twice during the water changes (teaspoon each time).
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 03:55:17 PM by Max B. » Logged
Hanna
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Re: Let me introduce myself...
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2010, 07:14:15 PM »

Hi Max,
welcome to the forum. Lovely fishie you've got there. Whats his/her name?

I notice the scales missing on its side, also a tiny bump on the dorsal fin? How does he/she act and hold her fins?

86F is a bit confusing for me... this must be arround the 30C mark. Well this is a bit warm for Goldfish, although they are a hardy fish, but more the common and comet than the fantail...

As chillers are pretty expensive, you could float a bottle with COLD, COLD water in there or a bag with some ice cubes.

A water change 10-15% once a week under normal conditions is sufficient. More water changes are advisable if the water chemistry is not right.

But what I'd do: Add a nice airstone into the tank, it is not only a lovely feature, but goldfish love to rde the bubbles and play with them.

ENJOY YOUR FISH Wink
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Nicole
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Re: Let me introduce myself...
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2010, 09:12:08 PM »

Hi Max!  Welcome!
1. That might be a little uncomfortable for fishie.  Fortunately, water is usually cooler than the air.  Do you have a tank thermometer?
2. I used ice cubes made with treated water to float in the tank.  You can also try a small water change or putting some ice in a plastic bag and floating that in there.  However, they might chew through the bag (yes, given enough time, they can do that!).
3. It means that it's a healed ammonia burn.  Of course, if he has some shubunkin in him, he might just have natural black on him.
4.  If he's new, yes.  They take awhile to get used to you and the new tank.  If you've had him for some time, however, see if there is something startling or stressing him.
And may I add, what a LOVELY fishie!!
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Nossie
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Re: Let me introduce myself...
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2010, 04:46:00 AM »

Yo there, Max!!
See you already got a bit of advice, but I'll go ahead and give you my opinion as well Smiley

1. That's pretty much it, fish can't feel heat or cold so that won't bother them. You could buy an airstone to add some extra oxygen to the tank Smiley They're really cheap Wink

2. At one point this summer my fish had a 30 degree day in the tank as well, but you could try to change some water (a little bit only) and fill in some colder water. And you could also try the tips the others gave, some bag of ice or a bottle of cool water Smiley

3. There's no way that the black is a natural part of his color, it's obvious from this photo, that your fish is a self-colored golden fish. I think he might have some old wounds that are healing. I mean, he might've been hurt in the shipping to the pet shop, or in the pet shop, and his tail is simply healing Smiley I had already explained quite extensively about this condition in another thread: It's called mela-nophore migration, and it's when the skin cells react to build new tissue over a previously hurt area. But just for safety, you could try and keep an eye on the water quality, and your fish's behavior. Is he eating well? Is he active? And are his fins clamped?

4. Since you said he's been there for a week or so, there's the possibility that he's not used to his new home yet, and a little bit shy, which is completely normal Smiley
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Max B.
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Re: Let me introduce myself...
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2010, 06:43:03 AM »

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Hi Max,
welcome to the forum. Lovely fishie you've got there. Whats his/her name?

I notice the scales missing on its side, also a tiny bump on the dorsal fin? How does he/she act and hold her fins?

86F is a bit confusing for me... this must be arround the 30C mark. Well this is a bit warm for Goldfish, although they are a hardy fish, but more the common and comet than the fantail...

As chillers are pretty expensive, you could float a bottle with COLD, COLD water in there or a bag with some ice cubes.

A water change 10-15% once a week under normal conditions is sufficient. More water changes are advisable if the water chemistry is not right.

But what I'd do: Add a nice airstone into the tank, it is not only a lovely feature, but goldfish love to rde the bubbles and play with them.

ENJOY YOUR FISH Wink

Thank you for your prompt reply. We haven't name the fish yet as it is less than a week that it is with us.

I am concerned about that white lump as it grew slightly bigger since yesterday. And it keeps the dorsal fin always clamped. As for its behaviour it is quite active but very often prefers just to float by the surface of the tank hiding behind the filter. It does not grasp for air so I assume it is not suffocating. It doesn’t stay on the bottom, it has no swimming problems.

I have done a few water changes this week and I plan to do one more today. I am adding some salt (1 teaspoon per the whole tank at water change). And while changing the water I siphon the gravel for the wastes.

Air stone is an option but because I have this filter with the long pipe above the surface of the water which as I have been said by the previous owner is meant to perform aeration I did not buy the air pump initially.

I have tried some ice packs floating in the water and managed to lower the temperature by 1-1,5 degrees every time. But the water still would get to 30 C.

As for the bump could it be a damaged dorsal fin or something else?
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Max B.
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Re: Let me introduce myself...
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2010, 06:51:15 AM »

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3. There's no way that the black is a natural part of his color, it's obvious from this photo, that your fish is a self-colored golden fish. I think he might have some old wounds that are healing. I mean, he might've been hurt in the shipping to the pet shop, or in the pet shop, and his tail is simply healing Smiley I had already explained quite extensively about this condition in another thread: It's called mela-nophore migration, and it's when the skin cells react to build new tissue over a previously hurt area. But just for safety, you could try and keep an eye on the water quality, and your fish's behaviour. Is he eating well? Is he active? And are his fins clamped?

4. Since you said he's been there for a week or so, there's the possibility that he's not used to his new home yet, and a little bit shy, which is completely normal Smiley


I have read the explanations to this process in other threads here (you explained this to other people). I do follow indeed the fish, as I have explained it keeps the dorsal fin clamped all the time, it is eating but not very active - by 7pm it would be behind the filter floating there by the surface with all his fins clamped and during the day often it would hide itself by the filter.

Here a short video on the fish:
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« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 07:30:11 AM by Max B. » Logged
Andrea
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Re: Let me introduce myself...
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2010, 07:36:32 AM »

Clamped fins are not a good fisn I must say and even though he is being active in the film he completely tires out at the end. Your water quality sounds good which is a really good sign. It's been awhile since I've owned a fantail so correct me if I'm wrong people but he does look a bit bloated and is swimming a bit fun. I would recommend to keep a very close eye on your water quality and maybe feed him some peas.
A goldfish should be able to survive 30C, I'm pretty sure my water gets that warm in summer. An airstone would be a fabulous idea to make sure there is plenty of oxygen in that water.
I agree with what others have said that he may just be a little stressed and scared. I really hope he gets better soon Smiley
For the bump, melafix might be able to help heal that. Look into it, it is quite the miracle worker.
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Max B.
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Re: Let me introduce myself...
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2010, 08:14:39 AM »

I checked right now the water again. The results are the same. (pH - 75, Am - 0, Nitrite - 0.1, Nitrate - 0.05) And I did a 10% water change as well cleaning a bit the bottom of the tank. I will look today in a pet shop for melafix and I need to find some peas.

As for the peas, because I am just one week into having a gold fish tank I am not really sure what type of the peas needed. Maybe a quick search through the forum will help me. Thank you.

After a 30 mins of my observations - I have put some ice cubes in a packet into the water switched off the lights and the fish is staying right now by the ice. I think it is not really comfortable in that 30 C water.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 08:35:16 AM by Max B. » Logged
Nossie
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Re: Let me introduce myself...
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2010, 12:26:30 PM »

You should chill a bit with changing the water, since your fish is so new in this place, you should let him be for a while Smiley Change the water only once a week from now, unless the tests will say something else.

The peas (guess you found an answer by now) should be natural, frozen peas without salt Smiley You pop them out of their shells and split them in some smaller pieces before feeding them to your fish Smiley

Either way, I see that there's definitely something wrong with his dorsal. A healthy fish shouldn't keep his fin like this. Now I am pretty certain that you're going to have to treat him for some infections... Because he's getting exhausted and just hovering I see, so I would suggest that you'd see if you can find some medicated food asap, against bacterial infections. If they don't have this in your local pet shop, get it online. Next, this lump. Does it look fuzzy? In this case, buy anti-fungal medication, and treat as soon as you can. If it looks a bit slimy, it could be a tumor or a viral infection called "carp pox" which can't be treated, but they shouldn't hurt the fish.
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Max B.
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Re: Let me introduce myself...
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2010, 02:27:59 PM »

I see now there is definitely a problem with the fish. It makes me so sad, :-( I just started with this tank and face these issues. For peas I will have to check the local grocery store. done
As for the medicated food, what precisely should I look for?
The lump does not look to me as something fuzzy. But I might not understand what do you mean, sorry English is my third language. :-)
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 03:52:23 PM by Max B. » Logged
nabi
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Re: Let me introduce myself...
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2010, 03:21:33 PM »

You can find medicated food in the aquarium section at most pet stores.

Also can be ordered online at Amazon and other places :

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[image]
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Max B.
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Re: Let me introduce myself...
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2010, 03:28:17 PM »

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You can find medicated food in the aquarium section at most pet stores.

Also can be ordered online at Amazon and other places :

Thank you.

Another short video of the fish targeting the lump on its back.
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Sorry for the camera shake, one of the lumps disappeared the other one became longer. I thought it might be an anchor worm but I am inclined now to believe it might be a fungus.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 03:43:18 PM by Max B. » Logged
Hanna
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Re: A fantail with some problems...
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2010, 05:20:03 PM »

Hi Max,

just watched both of your videos. I noticed that the white lump on his dorsal fin comes off. I tend to say it is some sort of fungus which can be treated with PIMAFIX and MELAFIX. If those ones do not help, you will need to get sth stronger, Nossie calls it the "shotgun" It is a solution with Malachite Green, Methylene Blue and Acriflavine.

Clamped fins show that the fish is stressed, as it was mentioned by Andrea and Nossie. And stress can lead to infections because of a weak immune system.

"fuzzy" means looking like a cotton wool, also no "sharp" edges. Your English is beautiful. Btw where are you from originally? Wink
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Nossie
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Re: A fantail with some problems...
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2010, 05:39:36 PM »

Well, I see you already got lots of help from them other ladies here Smiley So just follow their advice, and I'm sure your little baby will be alright Smiley

Keep us all updated! We're here to support you, and to make sure your fish will be happy Wink

By the way, English isn't my primary language either Wink It's so much fun to find people from other countries! Cheesy
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Hanna
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Re: A fantail with some problems...
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2010, 05:46:04 PM »

Nor mine,  Wink
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Max B.
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Re: A fantail with some problems...
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2010, 09:26:35 PM »

Hi once again. I would like to thank all the ladies who tried to assist me. Tomorrow I'll get into the shop to find some melafix or pimafix as today I have tried another petshop (different form the one I've used before) and left it very disappointed - no melafix and the young ladies who tried to "assist" me didn't know about it at all. Is melafix a rare medicine? Just wonder.

As for the peas should I feed just the peas for now or should I combine with other food as well? I plan to keep the fish on diet for several days, buy some anti-bacteria medicated food and combine it with the peas (in reasonable quantities as I don't want to overfeed it) until I see it in its full glory with the dorsal fin up and shining.

Because we (my family) did not name the fish yet and because I must save it I think I would name it as Ryan (Saving Private Ryan) though I am not sure about the gender of the fish. How it is possible to see the gender with the fantails?

As for the geography - it's not that simple with me ;-) I am originally from Moldavia (Republic of Moldova), whose primary language is Russian, then comes Romanian, English and now French as well as I have moved to Quebec and voilà here they speak français. I live in Lachine on the island of Montréal. I lived for 4 years in Northern London and there I mastered the English among different lords and sirs... :-)
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Max B.
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Re: A fantail with some problems...
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2010, 09:29:58 PM »

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"fuzzy" means looking like a cotton wool, also no "sharp" edges. Your English is beautiful. Btw where are you from originally? Wink

Well, I'd rather say it looks indeed as some fuzzy white stuff.
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Hanna
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Re: A fantail with some problems...
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2010, 03:58:19 AM »

Well, Max, welcome to an "International Bunch"  Grin I was born in Romania, then we moved to Germany, and now I am living in Australia, Queensland.  Cheesy

According to Melafix and Pimafix I suggest to get both, as Melafix is more to repair damaged tissue wether Pimafix is more for treating infections. Both are natural remedies, but every good petshop with fish should know and stock them. They are not rare. If you can I'd buy the bigger bottles as you'll get the better value out of it instead of the very small ones.

You can feed lots of food: Goldfish Flakes, Goldfish Pellets, Goldfish Crisps, watermelon, strawberries, pulp of oranges, zucchini, cucumber, normal unsalted frozen peas which youthaw, shell and cut into tiny pieces. Also frozen bloodworms once a week or brine-shrimp. They also like to nibble on aquarium plants like Hornworth and Elodea.

If you feed peas this should be enough.

And I need to tell you too sth I learned 2 days ago: soaking the pellets, crisps or flakes in "Garlic Guard" by Seachem strengthens their immune system.... and they just love that garlic scent, LOL  Grin. Should have seen how ours hopped into it  Cheesy

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Nossie
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Re: A fantail with some problems...
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2010, 04:54:17 AM »

I haven't seen melafix in any pet shop around here d: And that's not because they're bad pet shops d:

And don't feed the fish anything else than the medicated food during treatment Smiley After that you can give him all the things Hanna mentioned. And experiment a bit on your own, they eat most veggies. But nothing with spices!
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Hanna
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Re: A fantail with some problems...
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2010, 05:17:42 AM »

Awww... ok Nossie... maybe it is like with human medication that in the EU you just cannot get certain things ... Shocked

... my food info was general... it is correct what Nossie said, during treatment only the medicated food  Smiley

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Max B.
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Re: A fantail with some problems...
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2010, 05:44:27 AM »

ok, I see about the food. I'll keep you updated.
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Nicole
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Re: A fantail with some problems...
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2010, 09:10:16 AM »

I found Melafix and Pimafix at Petco here in the U.S.  I don't know if they have stores in Canada yet, but they might.
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Max B.
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Re: A fantail with some problems...
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2010, 03:44:14 PM »

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I found Melafix and Pimafix at Petco here in the U.S.  I don't know if they have stores in Canada yet, but they might.

Petco seems to be a US only shop with some international delivery possibilities. Need to find something which is in Canada. Melafix has been found remains Pimafix.
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Max B.
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Re: A fantail with some problems...
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2010, 03:07:21 PM »

RIP
« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 04:53:21 PM by Max B. » Logged
Andrea
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Re: A fantail with some problems...
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2010, 02:53:59 AM »

RIP? Oh no Sad I'm sorry to hear that.
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Hanna
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Re: A fantail with some problems...
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2010, 04:11:38 AM »

Oh, NO Max, I am so sad  Cry so sorry for your loss  Sad
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Max B.
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Re: A fantail with some problems...
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2010, 06:05:54 AM »

Unfortunately, yes. I've done many mistakes and wasn't ready to fight with the problems. Now I am going to clean the fish tank and start all over again without rushing the things. I'll do a fishless cycle. Half of the things I'll just throw away like filter media. The rest will be boiled for at least 15 minutes. The tank I'll clean with diluted bleach and then a proper rinsing to make it germ-and-bacteria-free "house". :-(
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Nossie
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Re: A fantail with some problems...
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2010, 10:21:40 AM »

Well, good to hear that you learned something Smiley I'm really sorry about your fish though, he was really cute Sad
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Mindemae
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Re: A fantail with some problems...
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2010, 06:42:25 PM »

Hi,
I watched you videos and saw from them that your fish had fin rot and a fungal secondary infection.
Most fish from pet stores do carry some disease of one kind or another, unforunately.
I'm sorry you lost your fish.  Any new fish introduced should be treated with at least Melafix as a preventative.
It is really stressful for fish to come to a new environment.  Some fish are sensitive to any amount of nitrite in their water no matter how little.  Ammonia and nitrite should always be zero.
As far as water temp, goldfish can survive in warmer water, even 90 F.  Water temperature doesn't really bother them.  I think a big mistake is constantly changing the water temperature.  That is a real stresser for fish.  A goldfish would do better in constant 90 degree water temp rather than adding cold water or ice packs to the water and the temp going up and down.   Smiley
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Max B.
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Re: A fantail with some problems...
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2010, 04:05:39 PM »

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Hi,
I watched you videos and saw from them that your fish had fin rot and a fungal secondary infection.

Hi Mindemae, just wanted to ask how do you know the fish had the fin rot? As I have read lots about the diseases these days to me the tail looked fine and I did not see anything wrong on its other fins. Of course, the fins were clamped. Maybe I do not know something? And here is another question, the fungal lumps once detached from the body, does it mean it is over with it? If not, how could I guess that the fish got rid of the fungal infection? I do plan to start over and I want to be more knowledgable in the future.


Quote
Most fish from pet stores do carry some disease of one kind or another, unforunately.

I did check the tank where I have bought the fish and some of the fishes had black spots on the their tails already. Do you think it's worth buying fish from this pet shop?

Quote
I'm sorry you lost your fish.  Any new fish introduced should be treated with at least Melafix as a preventative.
It is really stressful for fish to come to a new environment.  Some fish are sensitive to any amount of nitrite in their water no matter how little.  Ammonia and nitrite should always be zero.

Actually I've stripped the tank apart and treated everything to really hot water. Smaller things I just boiled for at least 10 minutes. And now having started the second time I saw the difference in the water right from the very beginning - first try - the water was rather cloudy right from the start, now the second attempt - the water is crystal clear. Maybe there was something already in my water... As for the ammonia and nitrite, I think the levels werew around zero but I am not sure as I find difficulties reading the results. For instance, pH - what would I get could be easily referred to two readings - 7 and 7.5 - not a big difference but if you say the fish reacts even to slightest amount of ammonia and nitrite... Or ammonia, it could have been 0 or 0,1.

Quote
As far as water temp, goldfish can survive in warmer water, even 90 F.  Water temperature doesn't really bother them.  I think a big mistake is constantly changing the water temperature.  That is a real stresser for fish.  A goldfish would do better in constant 90 degree water temp rather than adding cold water or ice packs to the water and the temp going up and down.   Smiley

By now I am already convinced that it wasn't necessary to cool down the water and I do not plan to do it in future. Thank you very much for your insight in my past problems. :-)
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