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Author Topic: Is my Goldfish sick or is it injured?  (Read 1275 times)
dulciean
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Is my Goldfish sick or is it injured?
« on: May 18, 2012, 07:58:13 PM »

hello- i read the sticky before posting this. i will do my best to give the most information i have! my tank is between 120-200 liters. I have 7 goldfish of varying types- i am no expert but i think they are - 1 comet ,1 large and 1 small black moor , 2 smallish spotty ( black/white/gold ) goldfish, 1 large silver colored goldfish, 1 large gold fantail. This is my best guess. I have a good filter, ( brand- Aqua one ) and aeration bubbles. i do 40-50 % water changes weekly or fortnightly. I use' Aquarium' brand water Ager, and also' pet's paradise 'Bioclear for bacteria. I have a ph testing kit somewhere, do not have those results right now
Ok- so, one of my smaller spotty/tricolor fish seemed to have a pimple like growth near/on its gills for a number of weeks. otherwise happy/feeding/swimming/etc. then i noticed other fish 'nibbling' and biting the area. now it has a large,deep wound where its gill once was. its almost down to the bone (? )It is still eating/swimming normally. but i am worried, and would like to know is there anything i can do? i have put him in another plastic container with gravel /tank water/plant matter whilst i figure out what to do next. The wound is deep red color, quite clean looking (not raggedy )and large.
Thanks for your time- hope to get some advice soon!
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fantailer
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Re: Is my Goldfish sick or is it injured?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2012, 06:11:12 AM »

Okay first you need to get some aquarium salt and then put it in the tank. Also get some Melafix and Pilafix (I didn't spell those right so dont go looking for was I spelled) and if the wound gets bad even after you put salt in the water use ithe Melafix.
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Skwishee
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Re: Is my Goldfish sick or is it injured?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2012, 01:06:58 PM »

Hi Dulcien and welcome to the forum,

Firstly I'm afraid I have some bad news to tell you, you have over stocked your tank and could possibly have some compatibility issues between your goldfish. Allow me to explain.

With regards to stocking, goldfish require a lot of space as they are very messy and when kept in a small tank or in over crowded conditions, they're mess and poo create ammonia within the tank, which can cause illness within the fish or even worse death. Fish can be kept temporarily in a highly stocked tank (like you see in pet stores) but this has to be temporary with regular water changes depending on the levels of the nitrates and decent filtration.

The rule of thumb for fancy goldfish is 80 litres/20 gallons for the first goldfish and then 40 litres/10 gallons for each additional fish. So in a 200 litre tank, you could have 4 fancy goldfish.

However you mention having single tailed goldfish in your tank as well, which leads me on to my second point.
You will probably notice, that the slim lined single tailed goldfish like your comet, are very fast swimmers, as a result when kept with fancy goldfish who are generally a lot slower, the fancy goldfish can not only be stressed by the darting movements of the more agile single tailed but they can also be out competed for food.
For this reason it is generally not recommended to keep the two together and in my humble opinion, I think single tailed goldfish are far more suited to a pond so they can have more room to dart and dash about.

Now I can appreciate that this may be a lot of information to take in and if you have any further questions please ask.
One option, you could consider is to build a pond or alternatively provide a large tank home for them with a length of at least 6 foot or you could re-home your single tailed fish to a pond with the space for them. How many fancy goldfish do you have overall? May I ask how long you have had them in this set up?

I would also like to add that your cleaning regime seems fine, 50% once a week water change is ideal  Smiley
Good call on quarantining the sick fish as well! If the fish seems otherwise healthy, then as long as you keep the water quality pristine and keep up with the maintenance on the tank, he should heal with time I'd assume, provided that no secondary infections take hold. Do you have a filter on the quarantine tank?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2012, 01:09:46 PM by Skwishee » Logged
Nossie
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Re: Is my Goldfish sick or is it injured?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2012, 03:15:44 PM »

I agree 100% with Skwishee. Some goldfish just don't work together, and some should rather not even be kept in aquariums Wink

Wounds will generally heal on their own provided that you give the fish optimal water quality, diet and space. As fantailer suggested, a little bit of salt might be good to add. You should be testing the pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate in the quarantine system to be sure that the fish is safe! And be sure to feed him/her lots of treats! When I quarantine/treat my fish I use to give  them mostly live foods (blood worms, tubifex, krill and gammarus + gel food with brine shrimp) and vegetables of various kinds, like peas or squash Smiley
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dulciean
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Re: Is my Goldfish sick or is it injured?
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2012, 05:25:56 PM »

thank you all so much for your replies and advice. I am so very sad to report that overnight ( I'm in Australia ) my little black moor has passed away- i feel so sick and sad ...I did a water change as per usual yesterday afternoon...now reading everything I think it's all my fault. Cry 
 the injured fish is in the original small tank we had- with a filter. he looks well ( but lonely? ) i visited the pet shop after posting on here and they have ordered the Melafix for me.
Shkwishee- I now have 5 fish in the big tank plus my  little fish in the quarantine tank. I described ( to the best of my ability!) the varying types in the top post. It seems i have mixed single-tailed with fancy varieties. on close inspection, i think i can see 3 single tails. a small comet, a large silver fish, and a mid sized goldfish with gold/white/black splotches. Should i save up for a big tank for these 3 guys to live together?
if someone can advise me how to post pics, you can help me identify my fish . I feel so sad about the loss of my little black moor. ( my son called him " Pie " )
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Nossie
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Re: Is my Goldfish sick or is it injured?
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2012, 03:30:49 AM »

If you feel like you can have two tanks running in the future, I think that's what you should do. You need to have a really big tank just for those three fish compared to the needs of fancy goldfish. When you say "large silver fish" it sort of brings koi to mind. Have you accidentally bought one? They're more torpedo shaped than goldfish and have visible barbels around their mouths.
You  can start looking around, asking around in the pet shop or making some flyers to find pond owners that would be interested in taking care of these single-tailed fish of yours, if you think you might not want to keep two large tanks (or if you don't have the space). If all else fails, you can simply give them to the pet shop and get discount on your future purchases from there c:

To post pictures you should click the "preview" button by the "quick reply" (what I assume you're using to reply to threads...) and just upload pictures straight from your computer.
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dulciean
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Re: Is my Goldfish sick or is it injured?
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2012, 05:27:20 AM »

Dear Nossie
thanks for all that good info- i guess i am a bit of a fool! you must think what a dummy i am!. it sounds like we might have a koi- oh dear! can i put this in a pond at the park with other koi? my local pet shop is not interested -i phoned them today. i am feeling most disheartened. what about the comets- i have 2. so there are 6 fish in the tank. 4 are fancy. 2 are comets . and apparently 1 is a koi! what should i do?  Roll Eyes
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Skwishee
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Re: Is my Goldfish sick or is it injured?
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2012, 06:23:58 AM »

Sorry to hear about the little Moor Sad

As Nossie said, barbels indicate koi.
With regards to the Koi and single tailed fish, as Nossie suggested re-homing them is one option. Or if you have a back garden and fancy a project, you could build a pond.
However Koi require massive ponds, these guys grow huge, an online friend of mine has some 4 year old koi that are well over 2 and a half feet in length! So unless you fancy the challenge of building a koi pond, perhaps see if you can find someone with a koi pond already that could take it in and build a suitably sized pond for your remaining single tails?
There may be an Aquatic Society near you, that would know of people who could help you out Smiley

Single tailed fish can be kept in tanks, but the tank will need to be big, a minimum of 6 foot in length, the bigger, the better.
I personally found it cheaper to have a pond (which I'm currently planning) than to buy a giant tank. But it all depends on space and budget, personal preference that kind of thing.
I did once put together a little article about single tailed fish, that might be useful; (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)

Your 4 fancy goldfish will be fine in the tank, as long as it is definitely 200 litres Wink
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fantailer
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Re: Is my Goldfish sick or is it injured?
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2012, 07:53:10 AM »

Do you have a zoo nearby with a pond. I have a zoo near where I live which takes in Koi.
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Nossie
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Re: Is my Goldfish sick or is it injured?
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2012, 09:11:30 AM »

Skwishee: She mentioned in another thread that the current tank is tall and octagonal, not the ideal tank for any goldfish, I'm afraid with the tiny surface area and bad circulation Undecided

Generally speaking though, a 200 liter tank is pretty perfect for four fancy goldfish, and I believe they're relatively cheap Smiley
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Skwishee
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Re: Is my Goldfish sick or is it injured?
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2012, 12:48:28 PM »

Ah is it? I didn't realise XD
Goldfish do like to swim 'laps', so longer tanks are better for exercise too!

I think with 200 litres it depends on whether you buy one with a stand or not. I have seen plain tanks for sale at reasonable prices, but then you have no stand or equipment.

Dulcien you could always consider the option of swapping your octagon tank for a rectangular one, perhaps through adverts or a local Aquarist Society? Or selling the octagon and buying a rectangular tank.

Only problem is where you'd put the fish in the mean time XD
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 12:52:35 PM by Skwishee » Logged
dulciean
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Re: Is my Goldfish sick or is it injured?
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2012, 04:00:17 AM »

thank you all for your help and input. I am looking at saving up for a large tank -about 4 ft (?) but didn't realise they were so costly, even second hand! ( here in Sydney around $400-$900 ) I have found a local park with a pond willing to take the baby koi. The other single -tails, well it's hard cause my son is very attached to them( there is 2 of them ) . I guess a plan would be to get the big tank just for them, then keep the 4 fancies in the octagonal tank(?) I have a large filter, and the bubbles that ripple across the water surface, and am doing a smaller water change mid-week as well as 50 % on weekends. I love animals- and want my fish to be happy!  Smiley
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scrivens345
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Re: Is my Goldfish sick or is it injured?
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2012, 04:59:13 AM »

Koi to the local Park! good news! Grin

4 fancies in a 200L ? do-able, but slightly over-stocked....need the tank to be at least 1m long

Your octagonal...a great home for tropicals

the single-tails...(assuming you can't build a pond....)....long-term these would like a six foot tank


I know tanks are expensive, so you're gonna have to scour the classified ads...another idea is to join your local aquarists society, they should be able to help you find some value-for-money second-hand tanks (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)
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Nossie
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Re: Is my Goldfish sick or is it injured?
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2012, 05:36:38 AM »

Quote
4 fancies in a 200L ? do-able, but slightly over-stocked....need the tank to be at least 1m long

As scrivens said... you should definitely have a longer or wider tank if you intend to keep any goldfish, particularly when the tank is overstocked, I think I mentioned that in another thread already. Is there a way you could sell the octagonal one and use the money from that to buy a better tank?
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dulciean
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Re: Is my Goldfish sick or is it injured?
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2012, 11:30:45 PM »

hello- yes i suppose i could at least try to swap/sell the octagonal tank to obtain a more suitable one.
but all this has got me to thinking- i have encountered many a home with fish bowls, small tanks, vases with fish in them, koi in tanks, all manner of species homed together.. surely one can be too pedantic about it ?
 The fish i have are very well cared for, kept clean, fed, and have their water changed very frequently. it could be much worse, i am sure! for now we are just going to plod along as is, I will keep my eyes out for a longer shaped aquarium, but it is most certainly not a matter of great urgency! yes- i love my fish.
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scrivens345
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Re: Is my Goldfish sick or is it injured?
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2012, 11:40:27 PM »

the question is...how long  do you wish to continue loving your fish?

Read this:(Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)
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Nossie
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Re: Is my Goldfish sick or is it injured?
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2012, 09:11:32 AM »

(Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)
the question is...how long  do you wish to continue loving your fish?

This! And do look at that thread, the difference is amazing! Maybe you can't see it on your fish yet, but it will show sooner or later. As I've mentioned many times on this forum, I have first-hand experience with stunted fish, only two of them are alive today being almost 3 years old and they're about the size of my recently bought 1 year-old, being about 2 inches, while the 1 year-old is quickly closing in on 3". I also have a huge moor who's 4 years old and about 5 inches long with really deep and plump body. The two older fantails were living in a 30 liter bowl-shaped tank for half a year and the new youngster was let straight into the 317 liter tank.

If you buy an animal, don't you want to provide the best home you possibly can for it? Say, you get a dog, you would probably want to groom, feed and walk it properly even though you know that there are many abused and malnourished dogs out there. It's not excuse for you to take worse than optimal care of your own pets that YOU have the full responsibility for.

« Last Edit: May 26, 2012, 09:14:51 AM by Nossie » Logged
Skwishee
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Re: Is my Goldfish sick or is it injured?
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2012, 05:56:55 AM »

Dulcien, while I have no doubt you care well for your animals, keeping goldfish in small tanks/bowls stunts their growth and can shorten their life span. It's a common mis conception that 'fish grow to the size of their tanks'. Which is what some people believe and so therefore try to justify their unsuitable tanks.

Please take a look at this article that was recently published, to help explain the realities of this mis-conception; (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)

Well done on re-homing the Koi!
As for Koi in tanks, simply does not work, unless you have a huge tank of at least 4546 litres!
Again this is because Koi grow even bigger than goldfish! An acquaintance of mine has 4 year old Koi that are well over 2 and 1/2 feet long! These are huge fish and belong in ponds or lakes. Not someone's tiny fish bowl or tank Wink

Like Nossie, I too have had first hand experience of stunting. My single tailed goldfish Lucky is over a year old now and is barely 3 1/2 inches in length. She started out life in a 21 litre tank with me, which was far too small and has since been moved to a second-hand 3 foot/110 litre tank, I intend to try and build her a pond next Spring, so she has time to grow a little more, but if that fails then I'll have to re-home her.

I hate that my lack of knowledge to begin with, is the cause for all of this. She was only in that 21 litre tank for 5 months, which doesn't seem very long, but it's had an effect on her. If I hadn't been trying to find a tank and kept her in that smaller tank longer than necessary the damage to her growth could have been even greater.

Now having said that, I can appreciate tanks are expensive! I am not sure how recent these list's are, but it might help you find an Aquarist Society; (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)
If you scroll down it should have Australia at the top Smiley
I also found this one; (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)

I found this one that is directly in Sydney; (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)

Perhaps try contacting them, explain the situation and ask if anyone can help out?

As for the single tailed fish, it might be cheaper to build a pond than buy a 6 foot tank. This is because with ponds, you dig out a shape that you want and then line it with pond liner and pond under lay, hook up a filter, job done Smiley
Pond liner/under lay in my experience has been far, far cheaper than any tank  Wink
I can give you more details about ponds, if it's something you are able to do, for the single tailed fish.
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Vicloz2006
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Re: Is my Goldfish sick or is it injured?
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2012, 08:06:05 PM »

Keeping fish in the incorrect tank can be very bad I had a shubunkin in a 15litre tank for 2 years (I hate to say I didn't know any better) as soon as I found out it was terribly wrong I bought him a 60litre unfortunatly he died not long after an think it was being in such small condiotions that did it. He never grew in te two years I had him yet my other two that went straight in the 60 litre have grown massive and I am currently getting them a 18litre ready. I know there are people who keep fish in bowls and such but it is terribly cruel to them, no matter how clean they are, these people just don't know any better.
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Skwishee
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Re: Is my Goldfish sick or is it injured?
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2012, 03:43:19 PM »

Vic I think you mean 180 litre, not 18 litre Wink
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Vicloz2006
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Re: Is my Goldfish sick or is it injured?
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2012, 09:26:32 PM »

Yes I did mean 180 litre. Lol! Sorry I did that on my iPod and it doesn't always keep up with what I am typing. Lol! But the jist of what I put is still the same.
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dulciean
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Re: Is my Goldfish sick or is it injured?
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2012, 06:54:17 AM »

thank you all for your carefully thought out, deep, pondering, and thought provoking responses. I have taken all the information on board, and am still looking for a nice big rectangular tank. i do hope to achieve fish utopia- and try to apply the same depth of consideration to all living things in my care- animal, mineral and vegetable
(and human children also!)
I agree that optimal conditions are indeed the noble goal - after all look at the evidence on this planet of so many humans whom never passed through the stages of development and are thus stunted- physically, mentally and spiritually! i would never wish such a state on my fish. you have all given me so much to think about and reflect upon- and i can't wait till i can post and tell you i have got a huge new fish tank.  Smiley
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Nossie
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Re: Is my Goldfish sick or is it injured?
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2012, 01:19:15 PM »

Really great to hear! Smiley Do please let us know how it goes and keep us updated once you set the tank up Wink
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