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Author Topic: Fish tank confusion..?  (Read 1841 times)
Soccer_23
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Fish tank confusion..?
« on: July 28, 2011, 01:24:12 PM »

hey everyone!
I've been reading the other posts, and i have become confused about a topic discussed fairly often. I've recently bought a 10 gallon tank with a heater, filter, light, thermometer, etc. I have become interested in the goldfish orandas. They're so cute! So i was wondering  if i could keep two of them in a ten gallon tank. Now i know from other posts that people do not advise this. But i was wondering would it be better just to have one goldfish even thought it would be lonely? I did buy a filter and i would be willing to clean the tank once and a while so my fishs could be happy and not lonely. So what would you experts advise? Just one lonely oranda goldfish in a 10 gallon tank  or two with a filter and ocasional thorough tank cleaning.
Thanks Smiley
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lreiden
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Re: Fish tank confusion..?
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2011, 09:04:40 AM »

Hi soccer, I am also a newbie and bought a 10 gallon tank and 4 baby orandas!!  Embarrassed  The person at the petstore obviously had no idea what they were doing when they told me 4 would be "totally fine in a 10 gallon tank!"  Needless to say, there have been bumps in the road for me, I lost a couple of fish, but now, my tank is fully cycled and I have two baby orandas living happily in the 10 gallon tank.  They are small and only a couple of months old so they are OK, but I am on the market for a larger tank because in the long run, 10 gallons is really too small for these guys...they get BIG!  You will probably be OK with two in a 10 gallon at first, but if you want to be on the safe side, just get 1 and see how that one does for a while, then introduce a friend down the road.  If you are a first time tank owner you NEED to read posts and information about CYCLING your tank first BEFORE adding fish.  I made the mistake of not doing this and as a result, lost a few fish.  My tank took about a month to fully cycle because I kept messing it up...there is tons of useful information on this forum about properly cycling a tank...specifically, look for "fishless cycling" assuming you havent bought fish yet. 

Do keep in mind that keeping these guys in a 10 gallon tank is a lot of extra work.  I do 2-3 water changes a week, I change about 25% of the water each time, everytime you change the water you also have to add a water conditioner of some kind to reduce the ammonia levels as well as to make the tap water safe for the fish. 

People always say fish are "easy pets to keep"...that might be true, but to keep your fish happy and healthy for a long long time there is quite a bit that goes into it. (keep in mind these guys can live well into their teens, twenties, or longer if you're lucky!)
Best of luck and welcome!!

Lisa
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lreiden
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Re: Fish tank confusion..?
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2011, 09:07:55 AM »

also, a huge mistake I made...you DO NOT need to replace the filter every two weeks, or even every month...when you do clean the filter (a month or two after the tank is cycled) rinse it in a bucket of tank water...never under tap...the beneficial bacteria that keeps your tank and your fish healthy will be killed by doing this.  Also, I noticed my tank got really cloudy for a few days and freaked out, this is part of the cycling process...I woke up one day and had a perfectly clear beautiful tank.

Sorry for all of the random information, I"m just telling you what i went through so you dont have to!!
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Nossie
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Re: Fish tank confusion..?
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2011, 02:22:29 AM »

Don't. As simple as that, don't ever put an oranda into a 10 gallon tank. Oranda is the biggest fancy variety there is, and they need much more space than a fantail or moor, so I'd definitely tell you to trash the idea right now.

The minimum for one goldfish, a lone goldfish is 20 gallons anyway, so... no. Never. Most of us have been there, had a heavily over crowded 10 gallon and then upgraded, but since you now have the possibility to avoid it, just don't do it if you want healthy well-grown fish.

And don't ever do a "thorough tank cleaning" this always means (in "normal" people's mouths) empty the tank completely and scrubbing everything, which means that you'd kill off all the beneficial bacteria in the system that deal with the goldfishes' waste. In other words, every time you'd do that, you'd risk your fishes' lives. Weekly water changes only, 50% a time, and more often if the tests say so (for example, high ammonia, nitrite or nitrate).

You can keep the tank as a quarantine system, always good to have. Go get yourself a 30 gallon if you want to keep two orandas (obviously, 20 gallons for one oranda).
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Soccer_23
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Re: Fish tank confusion..?
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2011, 10:34:17 AM »

thank you both for the responses! I've decided that i'll probably only get one goldfish, so i'll probably have to upgrade to a bigger tank. However i really would like to only have a ten gallon tank, as i don't have a ton of room for a bigger one. So would you suggest another type of goldfish for a smaller tank? I really like the look of ranchus..they're adorable. So would they also not do well in a 10 gallon tank? is it just all types of fancy goldfish need a minimum of 20 gallons? Sorry for all the questions but i am new to goldfish and i would really like a nice fancy goldfish i could keep for a long time.
Thanks!
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Nossie
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Re: Fish tank confusion..?
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2011, 11:14:38 AM »

All goldfish need a minimum of 20 gallons (at least 40 for commons/comets, since they are fast swimmers).
If you want to keep a 10 gallon, get yourself some small tropical fish instead. Platies are adorable and hardy fish for example, you can mix them with some cute gouramis or something?
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Soccer_23
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Re: Fish tank confusion..?
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2011, 06:26:02 PM »

okay, i guess i porbably should get a bigger tank then. The dilema I'm in is that the 10 gallon tank i bought came with a heater filter ect. but i could exchange it  for a 30 gallon tank for the same price. except the 30 gallon tank does not include a heater, filter, light etc. Would a ranchu or oranda goldfish be okay without a filter or heater? Also I'm having a bit of trouble finding a local store that sells ranchus or lionchus. Are they only avalible in asia? I've seen videos on youtube with huge (but adorable) lionchus and ranchus in aisa. I doubt any chain pet stores  would carry them.. i don't suppose you would know a good place to get them? In Canada? but i should probably focus on the tank for now. so would a ranchu or ornada be okay without a filter?
Thanks again for all of your help.
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Nossie
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Re: Fish tank confusion..?
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2011, 03:54:05 AM »

A filter is essential to goldfish, DON'T EVER TURN IT OFF (unless you're doing maintenance on the tank). A heater would be unecessary tough. The reason you need a big tank in the first place is because the goldfish are incredibly messy fish, they're constantly producing ammonia just by breathing, so you need a powerful filter with lots of biological filter media in it.
So no, an oranda or ranchu wouldn't make it without a filter. Think of it as being locked in a closet for a few days. I'd go for the 30 gallon, and then I'd buy an external canister filter separately.

If you want to find ranchus, try looking up some local breeders maybe? You can buy them online as well, at least in the states, so there's probably something similar in Canada Smiley
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Soccer_23
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Re: Fish tank confusion..?
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2011, 09:16:07 AM »

okay thanks so much for all of your help. I'm  gonna buy the 30 gallon tank and a powerfull filter. Can you suggest and good filter brands?  I would ask the petsmart people but i've read on this forum that they don't know to much about it Smiley I'm so excited to get my tank up and running!
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BronzieTheMoor
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Re: Fish tank confusion..?
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2011, 11:21:32 AM »

Well, I have two baby moors in a 10 and they will be moved to a 20 by december, so it can be done with frequent water changes and for the record, once in a while won't cut it for goldies. They're BIG poopers.
 The thirty is great. A twenty IMO would be sufficent, but you'll have uber-happy fish.
I like the tetra and whispers. For a 30, get a filter rated for a 60 gallon. The ammonia and poo again.
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Nossie
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Re: Fish tank confusion..?
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2011, 03:43:34 AM »

Anytime Smiley
I use an Eheim external canister filter, the 2217 model, I think, it should be perfect for a 30 gallon tank Smiley It's a really good filter once you have it up and running (I had numerous little floods while starting it up though....)
An external filter is definitely to recommend for anything the size of 30 gallons and up, otherwise I'd recommend the internal filter I'm using along with the external one too, but I don't think you'd need anything extra if you pick a strong and good external filter.

Just try finding something that pumps at least 300 gph, or is rated for a 60 gallon Smiley
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Dragonii
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Re: Fish tank confusion..?
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2011, 11:24:33 AM »

10 gallon + Oranda = BIG MISTAKE!

I agree that a 10 gallon is way too small. You could maybe get away with a couple of small fancy tailed goldlfish if you are willing to swap them out every 6 months or so. Who wants to do that?

I always recommended at least a 29 gallon tank for any goldfish, except pond fish. The long bodied goldfish just need to be in a pond.

Filtration is a must, and heavy filtration at that. Canister filters are highly recommended. They have a huge bio media camber, high water flow and due to being a sealed system they will continue to filter water even as get dirty. Hang on filters tend to redirect the water around the filter media as they get clogged. Another advantage to canisters... they are quiet.
The Eheim 2217 recommended by Nossie is an excellent filter. Eheim is German made, they use ceramic impeller shafts, huge magnets, they are make barely any noise and never die. The Classic series is possibly the oldest production line of canister filters on the market today. You will find pictures of them in aquarium books dating back to the 70's. I had mine for 15 years and the guy that I gave it to last year is still using it now.
They do however have a couple of flaws. Due to them being an old (tried and true, but old) design they do not have self priming. This can lead to the "little floods" when trying to get it started.

As for hang on back filters, there are a few really good ones. My favorite is the Marineland Emperor series. And let me tell you why.
First off, they use a more pliable plastic than the other brands. It tends to flex better and therefore doesn't crack as easy. It is also black, preventing light from getting in. The motors are sealed into the unit, no O ring to start leaking. They use Bio Wheels which when used properly are one of the most effective medias for bacterial growth. Their customer support is amazing too.
I prefer the Emperor series because you can modify them more. By adding the clam-shell trays and media baskets along with cutting up some pond filters you can arrange the filter so that the only thing you have to replace on a regular basis is the carbon. And you can buy that in the lose container instead of those expensive cartridges.
Another advantage of the Marineland Emperor is that the water flows back into the tank gently.That is good considering that fancy Goldfish are about as aerodynamic as an RV.
I recommend the dual chamber 400 model for use on a 29/30 gallon tank. If you go 55 or higher, get two.
As it has been stated, goldfish are messy. The general explanation for this is that they produce more waste, even from their gills.
Their gills however do not produce ammonia. they produce c02. The high ammonia production of goldfish is actually due to the fact that goldfish have an extra high metabolism. Goldfish (Carassius auratus auratus) are the only fish to not have a stomach. Due to the fact that they do not have an actual stomach, they eat a lot more often than regular fish and what they do eat is not utilized by their bodies as effiently. Therefore leading to a higher waste production than your average community aquarium fish. Not to mention that they get pretty big.




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