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Author Topic: Bubba - a 6" goldfish  (Read 1329 times)
trft
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Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« on: November 17, 2010, 06:33:05 PM »

Hi, I'm new. I've searched the Internet on my question. And found lots of advice. Then I found this site. I have 4 goldfish in a 55 gallon aquarium. One of my fish likes to stay put near the surface pointed upwards. It's important to note that this behavior is particularly present when the light on that side of the aquarium is off, and that is how I would like to run my aquarium.And Bubba is not particularly interested in food, although I did just put some brine in for the first time, and I think he ate some. But nothing like the other three. And he doesn't really like any food that much. I've tried peas, boiled, take the skin off. Anyway I've attached a picture.

I checked my chemicals, and I rechecked at a pet store. I am high on alkalinity and pH, and I've purchased something to bring that down, "pH 7.5". Everything else looks good. Water temp is 65 degrees and is constant. I am using a filter. And finally I think Bubba is gulping air bubbles some time.

I just wanted to run this by you all to see what you think. Oh, one other thing, Bubba is much more "jittery" than the other fish. He will take off like a bolt of lightning if spooked and has splashed the surface racing away.

Please, if you have any ideas, I would love to hear them.

Thank you. Tim
« Last Edit: November 17, 2010, 06:50:48 PM by trft » Logged
Mindemae
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2010, 06:53:25 PM »

Wow, Bubba looks stressed to me.  His fins are clamped, a sign of stress or illness. Undecided
What kind of filter do you have running?
Any extra aeration going?
Can you move Bubba to a hospital tank and observe him?
are the other fish picking on him in any way?
I would move him to a hospital tank, treat with aquarium salt, 1 TBS per 5 gallons of water, and add melafix.
Just observe him for the next few days and see if he acts any differently or if you notice anything else that might be wrong, like ragged fins, ulcers, white spots, etc.
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Mindemae
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2010, 06:54:36 PM »

Incidently, what are your nitrate numbers for the tank?
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2010, 07:03:10 PM »

How long have you had this fish? If he's new he may be a bit skittish. If not, somethings definitely wrong. Like Minde said, USE SALT. Helps the goldfish heal if something IS wrong and it also makes them a bit perkier I've found.
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trft
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2010, 07:40:03 PM »

11/17/2010
nitrate 40
nitrite    0
GH       25
CHO      0
KH      300
PH      high
Am      10 or less

Bubba and another pond fish added 11-06, added two more 11-8. There are only four other small comets in the tank. Regrettably, I do not have another tank.  I'll look into the melafix. I have some aquarium salt. Can I use that in the tank. Bubba was pretty sociable initially. Maybe the introduction of the next two goldfish ticked him off. I don't know. I changed 20% of the water last weekend.

Anyway for me some great ideas that I didn't know about. I'm new to the aquarium. I did set it up back in August and had a clown knife fish that I unadopted when I brought in the goldfish.

thanks, Tim
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Mindemae
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2010, 07:51:18 PM »

Holy cow! Am I reading that right: AM 10?Huh
Is that ammonia??
sorry but your ammonia reading should be ZERO!!
Your fish are being poisoned!!
Change 50% of the water asap!!
Your nitrates are 40...that indicates a water change too!
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Mindemae
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2010, 07:53:36 PM »

what kind of filtration do you have on the tank?
So you have 2 big pond fish plus another 4? and a clown knife fish too?
That's a little overcrowded.
I think adding those 2 big pond fish and then 2 more overloaded the bio-system!
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fantailer
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2010, 08:06:22 PM »

The water is a bit cold too.
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trft
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2010, 08:44:01 PM »

Yes I forgot to mention the filtration: Emperor 400. I changed out the carbon filters last weekend. Yes, I did draw water today to sit overnight to change the water again. Let me clarify. Currently, I have 4 very small comets and 4 big goldfish. My reason to keep the comets was that I though maybe the goldfish might want a change in diet. I do not have a clown night fish. Sorry, if I miscommunicated. My priority is the goldfish alone. And if my tank is too small for 4 big goldfish, then I think I will take Bubba to PetCo for adoption. Indeed if I should only have two, then I will do the same and cut my number of fish to two big goldfish <sigh>.

As to the water temp. I am on a fairly tight budget. I could crank the temp up some, but anyway you can see where I am coming from. Indeed the main reason I unadopted (back to Petco) the clown knife fish was I knew, only too late, that he/she would need significantly higher temps than the Goldfish.

I feel somewhat guilty that the fish are taking the hit off my learning curve.

thanks again, Tim.
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Mindemae
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2010, 09:11:40 PM »

Ok well the 8 goldfish for a 55 gallon is too many!!
The 4 goldfish should be ok for a 55 gallon.
I think some water changes shoudl help the situation until your eco-system, bacteria load catches up with the waste produced by these fish.
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Andrea
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2010, 05:32:13 AM »

I would advice water changes to get rid of the ammonia. Keep doing 50% ones until it is gone, don't touch the filter and get some beneficial bacteria aswell if you don't have any Smiley

Is your ph normally 7.5?? If so, don't touch it!!!! Changes to ph are much worse than a ph of 7.5!! I just went through this and thought I would lose a fish and I brought the ph down, but after researching and talking to the people on here well I'm glad I just let it be and the fish soon got use to it. Please just leave the ph as long as it stable it is the most important thing. Goldfish can actually handle a wide range of ph's compared to other fish and 7.5 is fine Smiley

I can't see anything about temperature but goldfish can also handle a wide varieties of temperatures, some are better than others and a cooler temp is better than a higher one as warm water has less oxygen. So don't worry about that, spend all the money you can on treating your fish which can be free with water changes and testing your water for free at the pet shop. I would buy some melafix which isn't too expensive and yes use the aquarium salt Smiley
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trft
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2010, 09:17:38 AM »

Many thanks. I'll post how it goes in a week and will start heating up the water for a partial change today.
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Nossie
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2010, 10:21:32 AM »

I can't do much except agreeing with the previous people Smiley Just follow their advice and your fish will be fine! Smiley

But I'm wondering, are you not using a water conditioner? I happened to read somewhere that you'd let the water stand for a while before you add it to the tank Huh This isn't needed at all if you'd use a water conditioner instead, and I highly recommend it, it has more benefits to the fish as well Smiley

And if it wasn't mentioned yet, you should buy some bio filter booster! Look for some bottles labeled either "Stability" by Seachem or "fluid bio filter media" by Easy Life Smiley They should help the water quality a lot!!
« Last Edit: November 18, 2010, 10:26:41 AM by Nossie » Logged
trft
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2010, 02:57:26 PM »

Thanks, yep, I am trying to get in the flow here. My goldfish were only $4 each, and they are huge... well 6" from front to end. I am beginning to feel like the mad scientist... and somehow bioethically, it feels wrong. So I sure hope I can get this tank squared away before things go crazy. Btw, my biggest problem has been petstore advice. For instance, I had a reading using Jungle Laboratories' "Quick Dip Test Strips". My hardness came back black. The petstore advised my water was really very very hard, and I needed to add a piece of wood they sold. It would add tannin, and my hardness would go down. Well, before I proceeded I called the Lab's 800 number. They said a black reading only meant that the strip could not test the sample and advised I should get a liquid test. The pet store didn't have a liquid test. I went to the "Culligan Man". They had a liquid test kit, and my water is definitely soft.

Such is the power of communication. I appreciate what I hear here, and I thank you again. I will continue to do partial treatments... and will look into the water conditioner and all the other info.

P.S. I'll be happy when they eat cooked and peeled peas and do not have clamped fins.
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Hanna
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2010, 03:54:32 PM »

Yes, we all recommend the liquid tests.
Strips are not accurate.

If you feed peas, get the frozen, unsalted ones, only thaw and shell dem, cut them into small pieces and feed your goldies. They sure will love them
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Nossie
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2010, 04:44:57 PM »

Sometimes it's better to hunt information on your own than to listen to people in pet shops. Most of them don't have experience with fish at all but know only the basics, so if you come there with a "real" problem they end up guessing for you how you should deal with it or treat the possible disease. That's why I rather research things before going to the shop so that I know on my own what I need Smiley
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Andrea
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2010, 11:52:11 PM »

I must admit I don't really understand hardness, is it to do with ph? I try to work it out by reading books but you know how there is just some things you sometimes just don't get like advanced maths  Cheesy I don't think it is too important for goldfish though, they are tough Smiley Driftwood is good though, nice decoration and the fishies can have a little suck on it.

Just some more advice which I think is actually quite important, while there is traces of ammonia cut right back on the amount you are feeding them. Maybe once or twice every second day as the more food you feed them well the more waste produced by the fish which will just keep adding to the ammonia. Any leftovers will also add to the ammonia which you are trying to get rid of  Wink

Best of luck and get some water conditioner. They sound like amazing fish!
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Nossie
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2010, 04:08:41 AM »

(me neither, lol) but hardness doesn't matter in the slightest to goldfish, so that really doesn't matter at all! Cheesy

I agree with Andrea about the feeding, it would be a really good idea Smiley And it would help too if you'd be changing a bucket or two every second day or something. If you don't have any medical aquarium salt yet, buy some and add a dose to the tank! Follow the instructions on the pack Smiley The salt will protect your fish from nitrite and other harmful substances Smiley
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trft
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2010, 09:05:56 AM »

I bought some water conditioner the other day, and I put the directed amount in the tank and also in the water that I will be changing out again today. Two of my other goldfish are clamping their fins. So that leaves (Hawk) as the one happy camper. (They may have all along... I didn't know the difference or significance of clamped and unclamped fins.)  I'll lead the others to the road of happiness yet. And I'm pretty happy about finding this site.
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Nossie
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2010, 01:07:55 PM »

So have you started testing the water or adding salt to the tank yet?
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Mindemae
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2010, 01:42:27 PM »

With the water conditioner you can change your water right away as it will make it instantly safe to use! Smiley
You really need to do the water changes or I'm afraid you might lose a few of your beautiful fish! Sad
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Summer Time
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2010, 05:49:49 PM »


Hi. Your fish is really pretty and a nice bright color Smiley
I agree with all off these comments, but in my opinion, I would start medicating for parasites and bacteria. If you don't start soon, the problem could decline rather quickly, and then it would be too late.

Make sure your water changes are the same temperature as your tank.
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Nossie
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2010, 04:17:00 AM »

Salt should do the trick against most parasites, another sign of parasites would be excess slime coat. Is anything like that visible? The fish should look almost like it's peeling.
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Summer Time
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2010, 12:01:27 PM »

Yes, you're right.  I'm worried it may be something like the Velvet I just went thru.  Especially since he mentioned Bubba being 'jittery' like a bolt of lightning.  That could be a sign that he is trying to get something off of himself.

During my studies, I have read that if you don't see improvement after 3 treatments (of anything), that you should change to something else.  So maybe if there are no results with the salt, then go up to the next level of treatment.  What do you think?

It's also VERY IMPORTANT to note that if your water has chloramines, they won't evaporate.  If they do, it will take weeks.  You can check with your water supply company or municipality, and get a water quality report from them or their web site.

It's important to correct the water quality as well, because the treatments won't do any good with poor water quality.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2010, 12:04:44 PM by Summer Time » Logged
Mindemae
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2010, 12:17:47 PM »

IMO you shouldn't jump to the conclusion of having a parasite or illness unless you can diagnois it.
If you misdiagnois or treat for the wrong thing or treat an illness or for parasites when none is present, that can be very stressful too and even fatal.
First and always test your water parameters!!! then depending on the results, best to try water changes, salt, melafix and pimafix first.  Then get out the big guns so to speak if none of those work.
Yeah, 3-4 days is a good time frame to observe for any improvement.  If none then choose another method for treatment. Smiley
Sometimes when raising the temperature and treating with salt other symptoms may show up that can allow you to correctly diagnois the illnesss.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2010, 12:26:05 PM by Mindemae » Logged
Nossie
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2010, 12:47:48 PM »

Summer Time: I agree with Minde Smiley Most medications available on the market are really strong, and may cause more harm than good if not used correctly.

Not to mention that the symptoms described here are pretty "universal" they may not even be a disease, but only the fishes' reactions to the chloramine or nitrogen in the water! And that's why I'm still waiting for test results here... so you're completely right about perfecting the water quality before commencing treatment Smiley
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Mindemae
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2010, 12:54:30 PM »

 Right!  If a fish's health is already compromised and weakened by bad water quality, you don't want to go dumping in medications.
The medications would further weaken an already weakened fish.  if his gills are shot or damaged by high ammonia levels, the medication is not going to work and be fatal for the already compromised fish.
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Summer Time
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2010, 01:09:00 PM »

You're right to start out with the safest method first, to be easier on the fish, and to be more sure of what it is before dumping in medicine.  Some medicines may raise the ammonia level too, like I learned  Wink
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Mindemae
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2010, 01:21:16 PM »

My sister recently treated for dropsy and high nitrites showed up as she was treating.  Instead of treating and leaving the medication in for the four days per instruction on the box, we decided it would be healthier and more productive to do a large water change everyday and treat with the medication everyday instead of every 4 days.  Well, I guess it worked he made a full recovery.  If she had left the medication in, the high nitrite spike could have proved fatal.
I guess you have to ask yourself what would be the least stressful for my fish but the most productive cure. Smiley
And then unfortunately, sometimes nothing seems to work...been there, and it is very sad and frustrating.  Undecided
Anyway, it is really important to test your water while treating too.  Some medications wipe out all bacteria including the good too!   Smiley
« Last Edit: November 20, 2010, 01:25:02 PM by Mindemae » Logged
Summer Time
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Re: Bubba - a 6" goldfish
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2010, 02:10:55 PM »

I've learned that, as well, after the fact, of course.  Smiley

I read on a web site that I find really useful, that you should do a 20% water change before adding EACH dose of medication.  I have to find the web site again and share it with you.

I also learned that the good bacteria is gram positive, and usually the bacteria that's causing the problem is gram negative.  So if you have to medicate for bacteria, the best one to start with is a gram negative medicine.



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