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Author Topic: Chronic swim bladder?  (Read 6453 times)
Goldiegirl
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2010, 07:56:26 PM »

Keeping tabs on the water parameters...everything checks out normal. The water temp has been pretty high lately for some reason, around 72-74. I've heard that causes goldies to consume more oxygen in higher temperatures. Turned up the airstone and my pump...ugh I'm so stumped on this one.

Got a picture of Topaz for anyone who's curious!
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2010, 07:58:36 PM »

Wow just realized the photo quality looks terrible on here lol. Looks like he's been Photo-shopped! Citrine is in the corner there - you can't see her head too well. In my tank indoors you couldn't see any black on her whatsoever. The temperature difference of outside (usually 65 degrees during the day) makes her color stand out.
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Hanna
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2010, 09:53:57 PM »

Goldiegirl they are so gorgeous  Smiley
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Nossie
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2010, 03:14:39 AM »

They're so beautiful!! I once had an oranda with the same colors, much like that Smiley But he was pretty much dead already when I brought him home |':

Either way, good thing you've got aeration and all! Cheesy Especially since the water itself carries much less oxygen the warmer it is!
But that's nothing you need to be worried about since you're prepared! Smiley
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2010, 11:21:36 AM »

Hanna: Thanks!! I'm glad you like them! I'll show one of just citrine.
Nossie: Do you think he is an oranda or a fantail? And that's so sad!!! I hate when that happeneds. Did you ever help him back to health or did he not make it?  And thanks about Opal. I take the hood off when the light's not on to allow the most gas exchange.

Here's my citrine!

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Nossie
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2010, 02:56:18 PM »

Nope, he died two days after bringing him home, completely disfigured by the internal infections |':

Anyway, it's pretty hard to tell which breed that fish of yours is, but the head does look wide like it should on an oranda! Although, if it's far over 1 year old, and doesn't have headgrowth, it's most likely not c: Still, I've heard of orandas that don't develop their wen until after a few years Smiley
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Hanna
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #36 on: October 06, 2010, 04:51:44 AM »

Citrine is gorgeous too, love the yellow nostrils, look so cute Grin
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #37 on: October 06, 2010, 01:27:35 PM »

Nossie: SOOOO SAD about him passing Cry How can you tell when a fish has an internal infection? My Opal has a big indentation by her pectoral fin that worries me...never seen it before. I'm still medicating for internal and external parasites just in case. Hmmm Topaz has a pretty wide head and is a bit chubbier than all my other fish...and maybe his wen growth is just a bit late  Roll Eyes

Hanna: Thank yous! I love how her coloring changed in the colder water - thinking about getting a water chiller for my tank if there's such thing. Cold water makes their colors so vibrant! All my fishies are so faded from high temps.
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Nossie
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #38 on: October 06, 2010, 02:47:57 PM »

I could tell because he was swollen and bloated allover, even misshaped on the outside, there were some big bumps on some places of his belly |': ALL BECAUSE THEY SEPARATED HIM FOR ME AT THE PET SHOP. And put some mean carps with him! :'c They tore his fins apart :'c But I really, really wanted this fish, to try to save him (as it was only the torn fins I noticed at first) He seemed really grateful for what I tried to do for him, and he readily ate the little tubifex pieces I soaked for him :'''c

His belly also turned red the evening before he died, and that's the last thing you'll want to see in your fish, since that's a sign that the internal infection has spread to the degree where you can't save the fish anymore :/

About your Topaz, maybe he'll get his wen in a while then! Smiley
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #39 on: October 06, 2010, 07:21:59 PM »

Ahhhhhck that's sooooo sad!!!  Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry st*pid pet shop people - I bet you could have saved him Nossie, kind soul. Wonder if you can file a report for fish abuse...I've heard about red bellies in dying fish - definitely NOT a good sign. Ignorance in employees can really cause a lot of havoc in poor creatures like your fishy Sad I especially hate seeing the poor black moors at walmart with clouded eyes and should be renamed white moors because they're covered in fungus. Just wanna buy em all and save them!!! I saw a beautiful copper colored oranda the other day I almost got, but he was so ill I doubted with my scanty medical training on fish I could help him recover from all his problems (i.e. fin rot, ich, swim bladder disorder, fungus...). Burns me up when I see that happening.

EEEK Topaz would look ADORABLE with a fluffy wen! I can't wait to bring him in once winter sets in. Our falls are super short and chilly; wonder how much he could have grown in 3 months outside in a big space.

Opal has a red dot that has developed on her tail. Just a weird little dot...checked the water again, all perfect. HE STILL WON"T STOP GASPING THE GOOF! And now he has a really sunken in spot on one side....not good. This fish is proving to be a difficult case. I did a water change and added a bit of salt to see if that would perk him up, but when I walked in the room ALL MY FISH WERE BOTTOM SITTING until they saw me and perked up. Sounds like nitrites, right?? But nope. Can't be. Ugh. Fish keeping is stressful busyness.

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Nossie
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #40 on: October 07, 2010, 03:01:46 AM »

That's terrible :'C Nah, the thing is, I had bought him before I could bring him home, so I asked them to put him in a different tank so nobody would buy him ;> But I've got NO IDEA from where they got the brilliant idea to put some goddamn carps with him!! The poor thing got bullied to death! :C (R.I.P Marneus Calgar Cry)

How lovely!!! By the way, if you want to encourage wen growth, you should feed him lots of protein Wink There is also special oranda food available by Hikari! Cool stuff that promotes headgrowth Smiley

Sounds like... OMG?! But one side sunken in is DEFINITELY internal parasites! Get treating! Cheesy But it sucks that your fish are acting so strange... especially in good water... >> Hm... how is the "stream" in your tank? I've just recently turned down the outtake of my filters since they were too strong and my fish didn't like swimming too much Wink Now they're allover the tank!! So too strong currents in the tanks (with fancy goldfish) can be a good reason for them to start sitting around on the bottom.
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #41 on: October 07, 2010, 10:24:42 AM »

Ohhh you must go to a specialty shop of sorts when you buy your fish??? Thats so sad about him!!! Little Marneus will always remember you and your kindness in the heavenly pond.

Cool about the wen food! I should get some, ever since I had my red cap oranda the wen has changed alot. It used to be fluffy and red, now it's kinda shrunken and orange. My flake food I feed them is 40% protein...maybe that's not enough?

I am still treating for internal parasites and will try looking for medicated food asap. Good to know that's finally what it is, perhaps that explains the gasping at the surface, would you think?

I do have a pretty strong current, what with the airstone and sponge filter chugging out tons of water per hour. Guess I should turn something down lol but not sure which one cuz the airstone helps agitate the surface wheras not so much with the sponge filter. This medication I'm using alterates my water chemistry somehow so bubbles don't pop for a while. Meaning the sponge filter is more like a bubble cluster.
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Nossie
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #42 on: October 07, 2010, 11:26:51 AM »

It wasn't really a special shop, just your average pet shop c: but very unfresh and all... if it wasn't for the orandas, I wouldn't buy any fish from there >>

My orandas had big headgrowth already when I bought them, but I feed them lots of live foods too, which is a very good source for protein, and a MUST for young fish Smiley

Gasping at the surface is included in the symptoms, yes c: In fact, any strange behavior can easily be connected to the symptom shown on the fish Smiley

I'm having a hard time figuring out whether the sponge filter can create a stream strong enough for the goldfish to be disturbed...  But you could always try a bit, and see what happens Smiley Won't hurt Smiley
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #43 on: October 08, 2010, 06:39:17 PM »

So not lqiMust have some nice orandas, no?

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Goldiegirl
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #44 on: October 08, 2010, 06:50:08 PM »

Woops sorry for the strange post my cat keeps stepping on the keyboard.

So the store isn't a petsmart I'm guessing, just a regular pet shop. Must have some nice orandas for you to give them your business, no?

Yes, I try to feed a varied diet rich in protien. Being outdoors, Topaz and Citrine practically graze on live bugs that fall in the water (i.e. mosquitos, knats, small flies, etc.). I caught a couple of squirrels taking a drink though so I typically keep a lid with large holes on it during the day so the sun and bugs get in but not unwelcomed visitors.

Hmmm not sure about the filter...I doubt it but it's possible. It's never bothered them before so I'm attributing the symptoms to a parasite or the weird meds I'm using..the package was a bit old. Maybe it's expired or something? I would think they'd put a label on it if it was parishable. The red dot on Op's tail went away. Ugh.

Interesting story actually, I went over to my friend's house the other day and she had a goldfish in a 10 gallon. She had had it ever since she was 3 and that thing was MASSIVE! Beautifully shaped to, with long fins and vibrant coloring. The poor thing's water was so cloudy though because the owner didn't even know what a filter was or how it works. It was a fantail so I guess it has exeptional duribility in its genetics. He only had a bit of gravel and an airstone. However he was an adorable fish Smiley and yes, if you're wondering, I did explain to her about the nitrogen cycle and the importance of keeping a cycled tank for a long lived fish.
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Nossie
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #45 on: October 09, 2010, 12:16:59 PM »

I'd say it's very similar to Pet Smart.. only the Finnish equivalent Wink A chain of stores spread all around the country, I think it was called "Petpoint" or something similar! The orandas were absolutely gorgeous! Smiley There were so many of them in all kinds of wonderful colors! A few white ones, red ones, chocolate, calico and some two and tri-colored ones! Smiley Some of them had swim bladder disorders though... and most of them were kinda' constipated, so I don't think the people in the shop were feeding them a proper diet |: Prolly flakes every day. And I just couldn't let such beautiful fish be wasted!!

I've got a few good links here for you to check out! Smiley Maybe they'll help?
Here's about bottom sitters: (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)
And you could also browse through this section of articles and see if you find something useful! --> (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)
Be careful with the medicines too! You should try to stay away from treating with anything but salt unless you actually spot something that may need anti-bacterial treatment. It's sometimes doing more harm than good when treating the fish too much, it's just stressful for them Smiley

I'd love to see pictures of that fish!! It sounds nice Smiley Since it grew so much, maybe she was at least changing the water from time to time Wink Bet he'll be even more lovely when he'll get the filter installed Smiley
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #46 on: October 09, 2010, 05:29:32 PM »

Awwww! I bet those Orries were gorgeous! Wish I could see their selection, but I try to stay outta the fish stores now that my tank capacity is at the max Tongue When I see lovely fishies I simply can't restrain myself, but I know overcrowding is a dangerous thing. Sheesh! Some people don't know didley squat about fish diets. EVEN I know that they need variety.

Thanks for the links, browsed through both and they seem pretty helpful. Come to think of it, Opal has been really aggressive lately (the breeding tubercles may be a clue). Perhaps all my other fish are hiding from him...

Yes, I agree. I almost NEVER use ANY meds besides salt exept during an emergency...it's sooo stressful and my beauties don't need stress on top of whatever's going on.

I know I should really go back over to her house and snap a few shots! But I was so absorbed in playing with her new litter of kittens I wasn't thinking straight Grin She does change the water, she says. It was funny because when I saw the tank I was like, "What's wrong with that water?!" and she said she just changed it the day before. LOL I bet he will be even more lovely because you will be able to see him clearly instead of a blur in all that mucky water!  Wink
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Nossie
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2010, 03:48:41 AM »

Well, you probably know how well-educated most pet shop workers are when it comes to fish keeping d: I don't think they even saw the difference between the comets, fantails and orandas they had available d:

Glad those links were good! Smiley There are some parts of course that could be added to some of the articles, but whatever ;>

Probably Wink Is she siphoning the gravel at the same time at all? c: Skipping on that would most likely make the water look all dirty when filling in some fresh water.
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #48 on: October 12, 2010, 07:18:57 PM »

LOL so true. I was at the store today and this lady customer was raving about how she wanted to get a fish tank so she could make the fish suffer and die and laugh about it. THAT got my dander up. Though some might think so, goldies are not just throw-away pets, none the less pets that you abuse on purpose. She wanted to put a koi and some feeders in a 2 gallon tank. I went out of the store fuming...wanted to tell her off so badly but I restrained myself.

Ahhhh poor Topaz!!! His swim bladder has gotten really bad over the past few weeks, and couldn't even be righted with the pea treatment. I know it's genetic; it's been 3 months and his condition has only deteriorated. When I went out to his tank he was completely upside down, wouldn't respond to me, in complete suffering. So I had to put him in the freezer  Cry couldn't see him so pained like that. I had to bring Citrine in because the weather's getting unbearably cold and don't want the water to freeze solid (which it does out here). She seems real depressed because her buddy's missing, but she perked up a bit after being around other fish.

Opal is being a pain and bullying everyone as usual. Thinking I might give him back to the store - my fish keeping motto is to have a happy, healthy tank environment everyone can thrive in. And everyone's in hiding because of that mean ol fishy...

Hmmm...not sure if she's doing the siphoning, and yes that really is essential. I did recommend she put a filter of some kind in there so she is going to, so that should help, but not by much if she isn't cleaning out the gravel. I use a turkey baster Tongue but siphon hoses will work too so I will tell her to do that if she's not already.
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Nossie
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #49 on: October 13, 2010, 02:41:32 AM »

Oh my God, and they actually sold her stuff?! o_O Gotta tell you, that's just wrong! D: I'm upset now.

I'm so sorry about Topaz :'C Oh my :'c I'm sorry for your loss, really Cry

Or you could separate him for a while? And see if he'll get better? But if he will continue bullying the others, I'd say give him away, really. I don't think you can let one fish threaten the others with disease and stress.

A siphon is so cheap unless you get some super-version Wink I've got this simple plastic thingy on a normal, transparent hose that I used for my smaller tanks before, and that should be just fine Smiley
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Hanna
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #50 on: October 13, 2010, 03:13:40 AM »

RIP little Topaz Cry
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #51 on: October 13, 2010, 06:14:20 PM »

Fortunately she ended up not buying anything when the employee assisting her told her how much work they require *good for him I say*, so don't get too freaked out  Tongue Oh boy wish I could have worked there and just went crazy telling her how awesome goldies are and once you have one as a friend you can never bully it. But seriously I wanted to just smack her upside the head for being so barbaric.

Thank you for the condolence, Hanna and Nossie. Yes, sad day for Topaz...did all I could to make the last few months of his short life the happiest I could, fed him on live foods and quality flakes, gave him a decorated outdoor home...better one than he would have at the pet store I'd say. So I am satisfied he could live out his remaining life in peace and go painlessly. It was hard having to say goodbye to the little fellow...done so much for him. Wanted to see him grow up, get big, have a long life, but it would have all been in suffering.

I separated Ops for about 2 days and put him back in. Seems to have given him an attitude adjustment to some degree, however I can observe minor aggression during mealtimes and whenever I walk in the room. He is getting on my last nerve!  Angry

I think siphon hoses around here go for about $8, so relatively cheap but if you have some extra hosing or a turkey baster lying around the house that seems to work pretty well. And I am going to call my friend and give her a lesson in fish keeping XD
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Nossie
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #52 on: October 14, 2010, 02:57:42 AM »

She would've deserved being smacked over the head, really! D: Bet nobody did that to her before if she's such a... cocky person, let's say.

Yes, be happy that he got such a good ending of his life, I bet he loved it! Smiley

2 days? It didn't take that long for Horus to become completely nice to the others... >> Just keep an eye on him. Maybe separate him again, inside the tank with a big plastic basket or something? He might notice what happens when he's mean c:

Anything goes! Tongue Tell me about the progress later! Wink
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #53 on: October 17, 2010, 10:47:06 AM »

HAAHAA I agree fully. I think she was just trying to get attention and being super loud and obnoxious whilst flirting with the male worker (honestly, some people...). He didn't seem to find her cruel "jokes" too amusing, and I certainly didn't.

Thank you about Topaz Wink I got a blue oranda in memory of Topzie, and he is beautifully formed according to show standards. (i.e. both anal fins present, deeply clefted flowing tail, extremely wide-set eyes - like Gollum lol - and a nice full wen) However, when I got him I noticed a black dot above his eye on the wen. In my tank he is doing alot of scratching and rubbing on that area. Tested water parameters and nothing was amiss. I think it's some sort of parasite - maybe black ich? - and I think I should do something, but I don't know what until I figure out exactly what's on him. He also seems to bottom sit alot, but I believe that's because he's paranoid about Opal.

Opal is behaving somewhat sweetly to the others, but I think he knows he's walking on thin ice Tongue I know 2 days was a while, but sheesh that fish has behavior problems and everyone else was completely stressed. I think he caught on his attitude needed an adjustment, but already he's beginning to try to play "king of the tank" and loves to nip at everyone's fins, especially during meal time.

Citrine's coloring has really lightened up indoors, but she has really grown during the short time she was out there! She's a big girl now XP

Will keep you posted on mungo fishy as soon as I get an update! Cheesy

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Nossie
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #54 on: October 18, 2010, 04:37:56 AM »

It sounds like a lovely fish you have! Smiley i wouldn't be too concerned about the dot on his wen,  it might be a part of his/her natural color! My Horus has some darker brown spots here and there on his gill covers and his belly for instance Smiley I call them moles Wink Maybe it would be a good precaution to treat with Melafix/Pimafix? If you're spotting some scratching and stuff.

I'd love to see a pic of him by the way! Smiley
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #55 on: October 18, 2010, 12:26:52 PM »

Certainly will post a picture of him! Cheesy
   I took him out and dabbed the dot with hydrogen peroxide (that stuff has always worked wonders for me) and it bubbled and fizzed a lot - sign of infection Shocked Thought it might be hole-in-the-head because it is said to be common in tanks with an under gravel filter, so did some research and it seems *sigh of relief* that's not the case. I believe it to be a fungal/bacterial infection in the cracks of his wen. However when I treated him with the peroxide, he got several bloody streaks in his fins with blood pouring out of them into the water! EEK! They stopped bleeding after a while, but still very red and inflamed. Not sure what triggered that, but if it IS a horrible disease I wouldn't want it to spread and demolish my entire collection of beauties. He still has a ferocious appetite, but he bottom sits a ton and scratches his little head on things which worries me and makes me think it isn't just a part of his genetic makeup like a little mole (cute name for it though lol Wink
   Not familiar with the medication Melafix...any info on what it does? I really would like to try to avoid any meds unless I absolutely have to...know what it does to my masterpiece of good bacteria, and also don't want to stress my other fish.

   Panda Puff, my precious chu, seems to have a problem as well (ahhh what next!!!). She bottom sits beside my blue oranda and her color has really lightened up. Her tail used to be a dark black, now it has become a transparent orange. (my mom calls her The Cheeto.) Also, I have yet to see a regular stool sample from her, everything is just the poo casing with no "goodies". Any advice???
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Nossie
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #56 on: October 18, 2010, 01:42:35 PM »

Aren't you quarantining every new fish? I might have misunderstood something, but it sounds like you're keeping him in the main tank already.
Melafix is a natural kind of medication, to be honest, it doesn't even kill bacteria, it just helps fish recover on their own. Best to use while quarantining fish, or when they have small wounds or slight symptoms on infection Smiley
It is, btw, very common for orandas to get small infections in their wen while developing it, as the blood cells sometimes die off "in the making", or how to say it d: It usually shows as small white pimples or fluff most of time since fungal infections are soon to follow... (The peroxide should help though)

What is she eating? Is she eating any live foods or vegetables? Those should help a bit Smiley But being only the "casing", it could be signs of digestive problems or even internal parasites! If you can, it'd be great if you'd look at it under a microscope, that should make it easier for you to  figure out if there are any parasites or... what might be the problem Smiley
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #57 on: October 19, 2010, 10:07:21 AM »

Well I've actually had him for about four or five weeks before I updated this post about him, but yes I quarentine - no sense in jeopardizing the lives of my children Smiley The dark spot has been present ever since I've had him, but I figured it was probably new growth on his wen or something. However, that's not the case... Shocked

Hmmm his infection seems to be a dark gray/black spot on top of a tiny but bloody ulcer. In fact,while I was observing him I noticed several small red dots covering his wen; they seem to have sprung up overnight. Should I do another treatment of peroxide or no? Don't wanna stress him, as he seems to be doing worse this morning...I think I shall isolate him so he won't infect anyone Sad

He's eating a diet all my fish eat consisting of veggies, live foods, flake foods, frozen bloodworms, peas, and sometimes broccoli or broiled zuchini and lettuce. I do not have access to a high powered microscope, though I wish I did Sad But the fishies usually tell me what's wrong given time, love and observance (and this website of course).

Think I will pick up some Melafix when I drive into town today, thank's for the info.
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Nossie
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #58 on: October 19, 2010, 01:45:09 PM »

Okay! Then I get it Smiley

Don't put any more peroxide on his wounds, he'd be so stressed! Sad It should be enough treating with Melafix or Pimafix (I forgot which one does what, look online or something for more info! Smiley), possibly some anti-bacterial med if the wounds are looking bad.
I really hope that's not hole in the head Sad If you see any strings of white or yellow coming out of the wounds you have to treat with some proper medication right away!

I really don't know what to do about this other fish... I guess you'll see what's wrong soon enough Smiley
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Hanna
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #59 on: October 19, 2010, 04:55:30 PM »

I'd treat with a Pimafix / Melafix combo, as Melafix is mainly to treat and heal tissue and Pimafix for bacterial, fungal infections.
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