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Author Topic: Ich???? I need help.  (Read 628 times)
sbmccoy80
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Ich???? I need help.
« on: January 27, 2013, 09:50:27 AM »

My daughter is 8 and she got an aquarium for Christmas from my brother. I am new to fish, as I only have previous experience with cats/dogs, and our of course our pet Lovebird. I set up the tank 3 weeks ago. Normal tap water, with the aquasafe added, and also stesszyme that Petsmart recommended. I started out with 2 fish who had been placed in a tank with a crayfish at the pet store!!! Not "feeded fish", but a pretty tricolor big eye little cutie as well as a solid orange one. The tricolor had been chewed on and was missing most of its fins, we knew he would most likely die, but my daughter wanted to give it a shot at saving him. I added Melafix to the water as well. He died in 48hrs. The little orange one survived. I did a 20% water change (BTW I have a 10 gal tank. The filter is what came with it, it says for up to 15 gal, no additional aeration, but I have the water level dropped a little so it creates tiny air bubbles from the return).
So 4 days after the tricolor passed, we added two new fish. A white one with a bumpy orange head and another tricolor. Approx 3 days after that, my orange one started to have black lips and I noticed the tricolor was getting a huge abdomen! I freaked and rushed up to Petco this time, and had my water tested. He said little to no nitrates, but Ammonia was extremely high and PH was a bit high. I bought the lower the PH drops. Did a 20% water change, then added the drops. Also, he sold me some aquarium salt so I added that. (I hope my timeline is correct, this was last Saturday). So my orange one also developed a black spot on his head. I looked online and assume it is ammonia burn. Since last weekend 20% water change, then another the next day, it has faded a little but still there. Now, 3 days ago he started sitting in the corner a lot, but my other 2 were normal. (tricolor belly is still swollen but not as bad. I thought he had swimbladder - diagnosed by reading, but he didnt die - oh I fed them all peas for about a day and a half) Last night I decided maybe I should do another 20% water change, so I did. But when I bent down to look at them, I noticed white dots all over thier fins!!! ALL OF THEM! The orange is the worst (he is also the smallest) they were not there the day before. Of course I assume Ich, from reading about it. I then added Melafix, and some more salt, and turned off their light earlier than norm. (I do not have a heater so it is room temp I suppose, so about 68). Im positive the white dots were not there prior because between my two kids and also me checking on them, these fish are stared at A LOT. (side note, I have have a live plant that is doing well, no brown leaves, dont know if it has an bearing on this story).
So now to this morning, turned ON the light later than normal and checked on them, the orange one remains covered in white dots but the other two have decreased from like 30 to maybe 5! Is this Ich? Why did they fall off if it is? I read it takes a long time. I thought they were dying when I turned on the light because all 3 at the bottom not moving, but then I opened the lid to feed them and up to the surface they came and were happily swimming around. Now, an hour later, tricolor and orange are close to the bottom sitting. White one is still swimming around happily.
I am sorry, I do not know my readings, as the Petco guy said no need to test the water as long as I am doing 20% water changes and using the aquasafe and stresszyme. Later today I do intend to take water up to him to test again, but toddler is sick and asleep and I cant go until a little later. Any suggestings for now?

To add: My orange fish's body is about 1 inch long, then his fins add to it. Tricolor body is about 1.5 inches long. White with orange head is about 2 inches long.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 09:56:21 AM by sbmccoy80 » Logged
Vicloz2006
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Re: Ich???? I need help.
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2013, 10:46:25 AM »

Firstly is the temperature in degrees or fahrenheit? From the description of the fish I am assuming two telescope eyes and one oranda? If this is correct your tank is overstocked that's why you have the high ammonia levels. It sounds like ich which is a parasite they attach to the fish until they mature then drop off. If they get it really bad it can kill the fish. You really need some medication for ich rather than melafix as it is for bacterial infections not parasites.
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fantailer
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Re: Ich???? I need help.
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2013, 04:53:09 PM »

You could also try raising the watertemp. But your gonna need a bigger tank 20gallons will do. Wink
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Skwishee
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Re: Ich???? I need help.
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2013, 05:25:39 AM »

Hiya!

Firstly I'd like to bring up something the petco store man said to you? "I do not know my readings, as the Petco guy said no need to test the water as long as I am doing 20% water change"
I would completely dis-regard this comment from the staff member, it is vital to test a new tanks water every 2 days when it is newly set up, because the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels will be all over the place and you need to keep an eye on them. If it's a mature tank then testing every week isn't necessary but it's still good to check every now and then or check if you suspect something is wrong.
High ammonia or nitrites can kill fish, so I personally think it's essential to test in a new tank.

If you have ammonia, test and change the water every day, at least 50% until the ammonia goes down.
Once the ammonia is down to 0ppm, nitrites will sky rocket so keep doing the daily water changes until that is also down to 0ppm. When nitrates appear, monitor them, they are okay as long they don't go above 40ppm, so usaully a 50% weekly water change is best to keep them down below this level. (25% water change is usually for tropical fish, goldfish are far messier and need a bit more water to be removed).

For 3 fancy goldfish, you will also need a much bigger tank. 10 gallons is.... 40 litres or so? This isn't big enough for one fancy goldfish I'm afraid. The stocking I would use for fancy goldfish, is  26 gallons/100 litres for the first fish and then 15 gallons/60 litres for each additional fish, so for 3 fish you will need 56 gallons/240 litre tank. You might think that sounds crazy, after all they are rather small fish right?

But fancy goldfish grow very large reaching sizes of around 8 - 10 inches and being rather round. They need the proper sized tank to be able to grow and exercise properly. If kept in too small a space they can become stunted, while it is debatable on the effects of stunting, I generally feel it's not a great thing for a fish to be stunted.

With regards to the Ich as fantailer has suggested it is part of their life cycle, I would highly suggest vaccuuming the gravel often to get the fallen ich out of the tank. There is an article here on treating ich with salt that you might like to read (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)

I wish you the best of luck, feel free to fire away with any more questions Smiley
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sbmccoy80
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Re: Ich???? I need help.
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2013, 12:23:58 PM »

Thank you all for your comments and help. My fish got better, the spots disappeared. The small orange one however, did die Sad and then the other 2 seemed all better. However, this morning the dots are back!
I was in walmart early this morning and bought a medicine that it a tablet form (its walmart so probably not great - but figured it was better than nothing until I can get to a real pet store later tonight) also bought a heater, but then found that its not programable, no temp on it, you just stick it in there and monitor with a thermometer, doesnt even have any numbers on it. Im returning it and going to buy a better one that is a set temp.
I have added aquarium salt and continued to do water changes, as well as another product that adds good bacteria. Im really afraid the other 2 will die as well Sad
I do plan to get a larger tank if these two survive. If not, we will start anew and let it cycle for a couple weeks before getting any fish. Hopefully some that do not grow as large so we can keep the tank we have, since it was a Christmas gift. I had no idea that fish were so delicate, as I see those poor Betas survive in a small cup at the stores. Breaks my heart. Maybe we can get one of those instead and nothing else.
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scrivens345
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Re: Ich???? I need help.
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2013, 02:52:40 AM »

Just a quick point.

It is advisable to remove any carbon media from your filter whilst treating your fish. Replace when the treatment period is over.

 

Caused by Ichthyophthirius multifiliis parasite, White spot is thought to be stress-related.Usually a consequence of poor or incorrect water conditions . Fish may develop white spot as a result of being introduced to a new aquarium.Raising the water temperature could improve the effectiveness of the treatment. Wounds left by parasites may become secondarily infected.
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sbmccoy80
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Re: Ich???? I need help.
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2013, 11:15:14 AM »

HI!!! Just wanted to post an update. As of the 30th of Jan I had stated that I would buy a new heater because the one I bought wasnt what I thought it would be. I also was using the Jungle brand Lifeguard tabs as a first step in hopes that it would work. The white spots were got from the fins in my last post, but the Orange headed one had a couple on hit orange head part. Anyhow, because of how bad they were prior to my Jan 30th post, I decided not to purchase anything additional since I had already bought so many things and thought they were going to die. I prepared my daughter for the worst and continued with the tabs, for a total of 6 days as it stated. I did remove my carbon filter.
Also, just to do all that I could with what I had, I added Melafix every other day (because I didnt know if it would interfere with the ich tabs), I added the aquarium salt, I did 25% water changes every other day (and that is when I added the Melafix, with the new water), I added Stresszyme that I already had, and left the light off for several days. Also, I did not feed them for 2 days to keep the ammonia from increasing (I read that food does that). Anyhow, by some miracle this conncoction worked!!! I am now feeding them blood worms, dried baby shrimp, and fish flakes daily (but in small amounts for each one, as a mixture) neither fish has laid on the bottom in a week. In fact they are more beautiful and vibrant colored than ever!! I cant believe it Smiley Im still watching for more white spots as I dont know how long the time for reinfection is, but for now, they look great and hopefully will never have this issue again. Thanks for everyones input! I really appreciate it.
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scrivens345
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Re: Ich???? I need help.
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2013, 07:59:58 AM »

Good to hear your fish are better Grin
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Skwishee
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Re: Ich???? I need help.
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2013, 05:03:07 AM »

Yay that's awesome to hear Cheesy If you check out second hand websites/listings you might be able to find a bargain for a larger tank Smiley

The 10 gallon tank you currently have, would be a superb home for a betta, if you still wanted to use the tank once the goldfish are upgraded Smiley Just make sure to have a heater and lots of plants!
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