Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
July 29, 2014, 07:50:05 AM
Home Search Search Login Register

+  Pet Goldfish - Aquarium Forum Community
|-+  Aquarium
| |-+  Health and Illness
| | |-+  Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2
Author Topic: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:  (Read 1331 times)
Goldiegirl
Sr. Member
****

Karma: 169
Posts: 762



Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« on: January 31, 2012, 06:15:22 PM »

I was going to put this under the thread I had for Koko, but thinking about it for a bit I realized that it is a totally different issue.

Last night I noticed my teeny red oranda Carnelian was exhibiting the symptom most dreaded by all fish keepers...pine-coning scales.  Now it isn't severe...yet...in fact, you almost need a magnifying glass to notice because it isn't extremely obvious, especially when viewing the tank face on.  But I got a little suspicious when I saw her scales not looking quite "right..." especially under her chin, it looks a little...how to describe it...ragged.  So the warning sirens went off in my mind and I viewed her from a thousand different angles before concluding that she is indeed beginning to show the first signs of dropsy.  The water quality is perfect right now, but some of you may have known that I had a bit of a mysterious water quality problem for a bit and then it went back to normal. She also was acting a little funny when I came in the room...she had lodged herself behind one of my filters and refused to eat. 

Well I immediately took action by preparing a strong salt bath for her...1/2 a tablespoon of Epsom salts, 1/2 teaspoon of regular natural non iodized sea salt in a 1 gallon mixing bowl.  I set a timer for 12 minutes and watched her cruise around.  From that angle I could see most of the pine-coning was directly behind her gills.  Took some photos and may post some if they turn out.  I also got her to eat some pellets, but she seemed to have trouble swallowing them.  She'd make a dive for the pellet, chomp it with glee, then spew it out, then go after it again with gusto.

So after the bath was done I scooped her up gently in my hands and put her back in the main tank.  I gave her another salt bath this morning and was wondering if you guys here think I should be doing anything different?  Does anyone here have any suggestions for this horrible illness?  I know I have heard some rare success stories at one point in time...

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Goldiegirl (speaking for Carnelian)
Logged
Nossie
Hero Member
*****

Karma: 481
Posts: 5469



Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2012, 04:01:41 AM »

I have nothing to add, sorry. If you're lucky, this might just be a localized infection and should go away soon, it might be caused by parasites or possibly a wound inside. I read somewhere that hydrogen peroxide was recommended for this Smiley

I really, really hope the poor thing will get better! Maybe you should try giving her peas in smaller pieces? Might be easier to eat Smiley
Logged
Skwishee
Sr. Member
****

Karma: 136
Posts: 1763



Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2012, 05:11:27 AM »

Aww gosh so sorry to hear about the little fish GoldieGirl Sad

The only medicine I've heard of helping dropsy was something called Metro Meds- (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)

I'm not sure how easily it is to obtain, or how reliable the product is as I have never had experience with it, but I'm afraid this is all I can add. I'm still very in-experienced, so just go by things I've read and seen about. Sorry I couldn't be more help.

Good luck with the little one.
Logged
scrivens345
Sr. Member
****

Karma: 89
Posts: 820



Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2012, 05:21:25 AM »

IF it is bacterial rather than viral you might be able to save him with anti-bacterial food
(Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)

DO NOT USE SALT as the increased osmotic pressure will make the condition worse
Logged
Ron H
Full Member
***

Karma: 83
Posts: 443



Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2012, 05:40:19 AM »

sorry to hear that Goldie, best of luck to you and your fish.
Logged
Goldiegirl
Sr. Member
****

Karma: 169
Posts: 762



Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2012, 10:44:53 AM »

Thanks all for your comments/suggestions/condolences.  Nossie I am curious - how would one go about using the peroxide for dropsy? Just dab it on her body or put some in the bath water? I know I use it a lot for parasitic infections, wounds, or other minor infections.  I'll also try feeding her some peas.  And Skwishee, thanks for the link...may end up ordering some of the metro meds if she shows no improvement.

I noticed her spine seems to be starting to curve a bit when viewed from above...and one side is bulging slightly more than the other.  She still acts pretty well, swimming all over the tank, but I can tell she just isn't herself.  I don't want this to drag out any more than need be and if she starts declining rapidly I might consider a quick and painless euthanasia; I remember how it went with poor Koko just suffering on for a long while...
Logged
cheri_alexander
Full Member
***

Karma: 56
Posts: 524



Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2012, 12:47:41 PM »

So sorry to hear that, maybe she'll be one of the lucky few. The only thing I have heard is injections of Baytril, although this probably isn't easy to obtain, most vets are not willing to sell injectable medication.
Logged
Vicloz2006
Full Member
***

Karma: 35
Posts: 558



Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2012, 05:57:33 AM »

Well I have kind of found a story of someone who 'cured' their fish of dropsy! I say 'cured' as it died later from an internal infection! But here we go anyway invade it is of any help! (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)
Logged
cheri_alexander
Full Member
***

Karma: 56
Posts: 524



Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2012, 10:59:46 AM »

That was a good link Vicky, interesting story.
Logged
Nossie
Hero Member
*****

Karma: 481
Posts: 5469



Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2012, 04:22:35 AM »

Well, then you would probably notice some redder areas under the pineconing scales and you'd simply dab them with hydrogen peroxide Smiley Like you'd be treating a wound! I'd also have some Epsom salt in the water at all times.

I've heard about the Baytril injections as well, and I do think that an antibiotic injection would be the best and easiest way to deal with dropsy, provided that it's been caused by a bacterial infection.
Logged
Goldiegirl
Sr. Member
****

Karma: 169
Posts: 762



Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2012, 02:11:15 PM »

Thank you for that link, Vicloz2006, I read the article and that poor fish sounds much worse off than my Carnelian.  I do not have access to Baytril, however, so I have to stick with my carton of Epsom salts.  Roll Eyes

I haven't noticed any red under the scales...like I said, her pine-coning isn't extremely severe, but it is detectable from above.

I DID make a mistake though!  Undecided  I decided to experiment with adding a couple of drops of peroxide to one of her baths in the last 5 minutes of it.  That very night she developed a large, clearish/pinkish blister over one eye, like the kind you get when you burn your finger on a hot glue gun.  I could have kicked myself for being so rash!  However, after 2 days it went away completely AND HER PINE-CONING HAS GONE DOWN DRASTICALLY.  Whether due to that peroxide or the constant epsom salt baths I do not know. I think she is going to make it!  Cheesy

I have stopped using the sea salt for her salt baths, only the Epsoms...through experimentation I have found them to be more effective.

P.s. she is also eating better.   Wink
Logged
Vicloz2006
Full Member
***

Karma: 35
Posts: 558



Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2012, 06:55:03 PM »

That's good to hear goldiegirl! Glad she is improving!
Logged
meow gangster
Newbie
*

Karma: 0
Posts: 5


Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2012, 07:05:55 PM »

Goldiegirl in the future look for the signs for dropsy. the coning of the scales is an advanced stage of dropsy. You can identify dropsy much earlier. the signs are white poo and swollen belly. dropsy is a bacterial disease, and the bacteria causes infection in fish, to fight that infection the fish needs antibiotics. ampycillin is the best antibiotic. if u wanna know any detail let me know.
Logged
Goldiegirl
Sr. Member
****

Karma: 169
Posts: 762



Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2012, 10:25:02 PM »

Thanks Vicloz!  Me too.   Smiley

Thank you for your imput, meow gangster.  Funny thing is her poo is normal and has been for as long as I can remember; not stringy or white at all.  Her belly wasn't bloated as she has an abnormally small stomach compared to the rest of her body genetically unlike most potbellied orandas.  I have never used antibiotics for my fish but would be interested to gain more knowledge regarding them for the future.  Smiley
Logged
Nossie
Hero Member
*****

Karma: 481
Posts: 5469



Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2012, 03:46:18 AM »

meow gangster: Dropsy isn't a bacterial illness, it's a symptom that can be caused by anything from parasites to bacteria to wounds and/or poor water quality. That's why it's always so hard to treat, you can't tell exactly what caused it :/

Goldiegirl: I'm really happy to hear she's getting better! That's amazing! Smiley Keep us posted! Smiley
Logged
scrivens345
Sr. Member
****

Karma: 89
Posts: 820



Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2012, 05:20:31 AM »

@Nossie....I agree
It is a symptom caused by a build up of fluid in the fish's body cavities...which is why reducing the pressure in the tank is helpful
Logged
meow gangster
Newbie
*

Karma: 0
Posts: 5


Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2012, 03:43:26 PM »

goldiegirl then your goldfish isn't suffering from dropsy. A swollen belly has to be there if your fish has dropsy. your goldfish is suffering from Areomonas. and you are always welcome:)

And Nossie: Dropsy is a 100% bacterial disease, dropsy is caused by internal infection caused by bacteria. once the scales are protruding due to dropsy and not Areomonas, the fish almost always dies. The protruding of the scales when caused by dropsy is a point of no return for the goldy.
Logged
meow gangster
Newbie
*

Karma: 0
Posts: 5


Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2012, 03:44:44 PM »

scrivens the build up of fluids in the fish body is due to bacterial infection.
Logged
Vicloz2006
Full Member
***

Karma: 35
Posts: 558



Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2012, 04:47:20 PM »

I thought it was not always a bacterial infection that sometimes it can be a tumour or a parasite.
Logged
Nossie
Hero Member
*****

Karma: 481
Posts: 5469



Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2012, 04:03:48 AM »

Vicloz, it isn't a bacterial illness, so please don't mind what this person is saying :/
You were completely right on what dropsy is and how it works. By the way, it can also be a sign of kidney failure and/or the other internal organs shutting down one by one.
Logged
Vicloz2006
Full Member
***

Karma: 35
Posts: 558



Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2012, 05:21:54 AM »

Thanks Nossie I had looked it up after I saw this thread and that was what it had said, so I was a bit confused.
Logged
Skwishee
Sr. Member
****

Karma: 136
Posts: 1763



Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2012, 07:29:36 AM »

Glad to hear she's getting better Goldiegirl  Grin
Logged
meow gangster
Newbie
*

Karma: 0
Posts: 5


Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2012, 09:34:01 AM »

Vicloz dropsy is a symptom of bacterial disease, hence dropsy is a bacterial disease, Nossie is a senior member, thats why its difficult for him/her to accept what i'm saying. But Vicloz don't be misguided by misinformation. Respect for all. cheers.
Logged
scrivens345
Sr. Member
****

Karma: 89
Posts: 820



Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2012, 09:41:30 AM »

Causes

Viral and/or internal bacterial infections of the kidney, as well as metabolic and nutritional disorders. Fluid builds up within the body cavities of the animal. This fluid builds up and causes internal pressure which causes the swelling. In fish, this causes the scales to protrude noticeably. giving it the name 'pinecone disease'.

(Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)
Logged
Vicloz2006
Full Member
***

Karma: 35
Posts: 558



Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2012, 11:31:34 AM »

Dropsy can be caused by bacteria or it could be kidney failure! Dropsy is a symptom of what is wrong not the actual problem!

(Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)

Logged
Nossie
Hero Member
*****

Karma: 481
Posts: 5469



Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2012, 10:45:04 AM »

meow: Lol, doesn't matter if I'm a senior member or not, we've got people on here having a lot more information than me that aren't senior members Grin

However, I believe the links and posts of the other people on here speak for themselves Smiley
Logged
Goldiegirl
Sr. Member
****

Karma: 169
Posts: 762



Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2012, 03:04:01 PM »

Thank you all for trying to help to the best of your ability.  I do appreciate it.  Smiley

Carnelian is doing pretty well as far as I can tell... she has some slight pine-coning  but most of it has gone down.  I have discontinued the salt baths and am just letting her do some recovery time in the tank on her own.

She does have a patch on her tail with short red blood streaks on the tip...not sure if this is from the others possibly bullying her while I'm away or what; the water quality is fine (ammonia and nitrite 0, nitrate .5ppm, ph around 7.5 and so on...) so can't be certain what that's about.  Huh

Her eating habits are back to normal as well. (yay!)



Logged
Vicloz2006
Full Member
***

Karma: 35
Posts: 558



Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2012, 06:16:42 PM »

Well that's good! I hope she keeps getting better! Keep us posted on how she is doing!
Logged
Nossie
Hero Member
*****

Karma: 481
Posts: 5469



Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2012, 04:48:53 AM »

Great! Smiley The streaks are probably left-overs and will go away as she's getting better, I think? Smiley
Logged
Goldiegirl
Sr. Member
****

Karma: 169
Posts: 762



Re: Drrroooopssssyyyyy?! D:
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2012, 09:17:45 PM »

Bad news guys.  Carnelian now swims in the sky-pond above.  Cry  She started to deteriorate so rapidly - floating listlessly, not eating at all. I decided to put her out of her misery.

Thanks all for your help. We all tried our best.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  
« previous next »
Jump to:  
Page created in 0.691 seconds with 16 queries.