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Author Topic: Red Oranda or Lion Head Wen "Fraying"  (Read 2473 times)
beverly
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Red Oranda or Lion Head Wen "Fraying"
« on: June 08, 2010, 12:42:38 AM »

I have a three year old lion head or Oranda goldfish I'm not sure which) that lives with about a dozen comets and other goldfish in my 275 gallon outdoor pond.  It was very small when I got it but it has been thriving and was very healthy. It is about 4 inches long.  A little over a week ago, a friend gave us two koi, the larger one is about 8 inches long.  Today, I noticed a "fraying" of the wen of the lion head fish.  Could the koi be picking on the lion head and damaging it's wen?  Or could they be bumping it when feeding?   I have been watching to make sure it is eating and it is getting some food although I plan to get some sinking pellets so it will be able to see the food better.  I am worried and wonder if I should separate the lion head from the other fish.  I haven't ever noticed this "fraying" before and I am extremely worried that it may be getting stressed or worse in danger.  Help!  It is my favorite and I would remove the koi if need be since I am not attached to them yet. 

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nabi
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Re: Red Oranda or Lion Head Wen "Fraying"
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2010, 01:10:33 AM »

Koi can become very aggressive and territorial in very small ponds and will bully other smaller fish once they are big enough or if they are bigger already. At the very minimum , each koi requires around 250 gallons per fish , but this is not ideal.  It's better to have around 500 gallons for each koi , because they need the extra space for exercise and to remain healthy. You can raise koi in a smaller pond, but they will not likely achieve their maximum growth potential.  

To be honest , your 275 gallon pond was just perfect for what you had before you acquired the two koi. With the addition of the the two koi, it's just too small to support all the fish now. The two koi will terrorize the other fish and take over the pond if they haven't already done so. You really need a pond that is over 1000 gallon to successfully keep all the fish you have now, so they have room to swim and don't have to bump into each other all the time.

As far as the oranda or lionhead goldfish , when you say wen is "fraying"  do you mean it's torn?  
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Nossie
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Re: Red Oranda or Lion Head Wen "Fraying"
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2010, 03:34:49 AM »

It happens that fish are sometimes nipping the wen of Orandas, lionheads and ranchus. This is a behavior that won't stop! It's much like when Tiger barbs are nipping the fins of long-finned fish.

Now that I know how much space a koi needs to grow, I strongly suggest that you try and get rid of these two! Try giving them to a pet store or someone you know. They may otherwise prove a danger to your other goldfish as well.

You should also separate the hurt fish, if you have a cycled hospital tank or something, it would be good! That way you'd make sure that the fish would get healthy again and that the other fish won't eat the rest of his hood. You could, just in case add some medical salt to the tank along with melafix (:
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Mindemae
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Re: Red Oranda or Lion Head Wen "Fraying"
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2010, 09:01:31 AM »

If it were me I would remove the oranda.  Does this fish in question have a dorsal fin?(top fin)  If it does then It is an oranda.  I would remove the oranda from the pond altogether.  Even comets and commons can be aggressive!
There are all kinds of parasites in the water of a pond.  The injury to the fish's wen compromises it. A fish with an injury will be picked on by other fish.  I would keep the oranda by itself in a tank of its own and treat it with aquarium salt and melafix like Nossie suggested.
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Nicole
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Re: Red Oranda or Lion Head Wen "Fraying"
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2010, 02:00:18 PM »

I heard sometimes oranda get fungus growth on their wen, right in the folds, especially if they get injured.  I have no idea if that's what's happening, but it is something to keep an eye open for.
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