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Author Topic: is a cycled tank harder?  (Read 900 times)
Summer Time
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is a cycled tank harder?
« on: July 27, 2010, 07:26:02 PM »

I am not new to goldfish, but am new to the cycled tank.

Is it harder to keep goldfish healthy in a cycled tank, as opposed to just dumping and scrubbing the tank every once in a while? 

In a properly cycled tank with good water conditions, is it normal to have various problems and diseases come up?

Should I frequently treat goldfish with a preventative medication so they don't get ich, fin rot, etc.?


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Andrea
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Re: is a cycled tank harder?
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2010, 02:57:30 AM »

I don't even know where to start but I can tell you I am speaking from experience as I started off completing dumping and scrubbing my tank while now I have a cycled tank and would never ever change.
So quick answer is no, not at all!!! It is a million times easier and I'm a bit confused about where you have gotten this idea from, care to share?
In a cycled tanks you can still get diseases as not all diseases are caused by poor water quality but alot are from fin rot to swim bladder problems and many of these diseases will kill your fish. I don't think there is an preventative medication for the diseases you mentioned. I may be wrong but the medications for that fix the problem they don't work like an immunisation which will prevent you from getting the disease. So in other words they work like antibiotics Smiley
Also think about how much easier it would be for you instead of having to remove the fish from it's tank and completely scrub it and fill it up. Instead you just remove 10-20% of the water once a week, replace it with treated water and wash the filter material in used tank water every second week or so.
It is stressful on your fish to completely start anew every week or so. It is an incredible shock and this is why so many goldfish die after a few days. Goldfish can live to 10-20 years of age so can you imagine why these fish are dying at such a young age? There is no cycle that is built up so as the bad bacteria starts to grow they are attacked by their own waste instead of good bacteria feeding off it and therefore protecting the fish.

If your tank is cycled I think you'd see all this so I wonder if you have ever had a properly cycled tank.

I could go on and on but I know the others will cover everything else and probably explain it better Tongue
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Andrea
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Re: is a cycled tank harder?
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2010, 02:58:27 AM »

Oh wait don't worry about the second last bit, I see you are new to cycled tanks. Sorry but I do emphasis if you do create one you will see a great difference and so will your fishie friends Smiley
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Nossie
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Re: is a cycled tank harder?
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2010, 04:11:02 AM »

NO. It's 10 million times healthier and safer for your fish to live in a cycled tank since there are bacteria that take care of the ammonia the fish produce! Without that, they'd be sick and dying all the time.
But you need to test the water from time to time even in a cycled tank to make sure everything's okay! Like nitrate, that's very important as higher levels of nitrates go right on the fish's immune system and makes them susceptible to all kinds of bacterial, viral and parasitic infections. You need to keep the nitrates under control by doing regular water changes, about once a week, or once every second week in a bigger system. So NO, there shouldn't be diseases coming up all the time if you'll care about the water the fish live in, and if you'll quarantine any new fish before introducing them to the main system.

And don't treat them if they're not sick, absolutely not. That's another thing that will weaken their immune system.
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Hanna
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Re: is a cycled tank harder?
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2010, 04:19:34 AM »

Hi Summer Time

Andrea and Nossie are very right. It is much easier to care for your fishies with a cycled tank.

But first can you please let us know:
-how big is your tank
-how many fishies
-how is your waterquality:  Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and pH?

According to the test results one can tell about the cycling process.  Do you have beneficial bacteria and water conditioner?

I do not recommend at all to treat with medication to prevent deseases. You can imagine us taking antibiotics or painkillers all the time to prevent infection or headaches... our body would get used to it and after a while the medication wouldn't work. We would be immune against that medication.

The only thing to prevent deseases as good as we can is to care for the best water quality, not to overfeed, do regular tests to monitor what's happening with the water. this doesn't mean that our fishies will never get sick, we only can hope that all stays ok.

Hope this helps for now Wink
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Summer Time
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Re: is a cycled tank harder?
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2010, 07:51:00 PM »

Hi.  Thanks for clarifying this for me.  I agree with all of your comments, and am glad that you recommend a cycled tank, because it is much easier for me as well.  Smiley

I wrote the question because I used to have 2 goldfish in a 10-gallon tank that I dumped and scrubbed every month, and they lived 5-6 years with no disease and no problems.  (They died because of my neighbor's kid.)

I now have a properly cycled 10-gallon tank that I set up last March.  I test the water regularly and it's in great condition.  The only mistake that I made was that I put the fish in 2 days after setting it up, so they had to go thru the cycling process (sorry about that, now I know better.) 

One of my goldfish died 2 weeks ago from fin/tail rot.  And my other goldfish is really healthy and energetic, but yesterday I saw that one part of his tail looked torn, kind of like a cut from the end, towards the body.  I think this is tail rot, unless their tails are supposed to look like that?

Anyway, because of this, I started putting in 1/2 teaspoon of Melafix and 1/2 teaspoon of Pimafix last night.  I don't want to lose this fish too.  I plan on using these 2 medicines for the 7 days that the instructions say. 

Today I bought a new goldfish friend for my 1 goldfish, because if he is sick, the only stress I can see him having is that he was living alone.  He used to always swim next to my other fish that died.  So now I have 2 goldfish again in the 10-gallon tank.  They are still quite small; I know I will have to get a larger tank when they grow.

I guess I was wondering if there were more diseases existing in a well cycled tank, but from your response, it actually sounds healthier than dumping and scrubbing the whole thing.  Smiley
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Summer Time
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Re: is a cycled tank harder?
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2010, 07:54:03 PM »

One more thing, I have been doing a lot of reading and studying on goldfish care, so I am trying to do everything perfectly.  Smiley
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Hanna
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Re: is a cycled tank harder?
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2010, 04:05:46 AM »

Hi Summer Time,

a rip in the fin doesn't mean fin rot all the time. If it is a rip about half cm or so it could be that he ripped it on sth.
Very good to treat with melafix and pimafix. the rip should heal pretty soon. I know, because our Humphrey, he's a sweet little bugger of a fish,  had this happen to him a couple of times. I'll find a pic, so you can see it. He also broke his dorsal fin somehow...?...no one knows how...
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Hanna
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Re: is a cycled tank harder?
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2010, 04:07:24 AM »

can you see the rip and the broken fin?

if it looks much the smae on your fish, you do well treating as you said. It shouldn't be fin rot
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Summer Time
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Re: is a cycled tank harder?
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2010, 06:55:31 PM »

Cute picture! 

Yes, that's what my fish's tail looks like.  It's just a small tear and is hard to see because it doesn't always show with the way the tail lies. 
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Hanna
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Re: is a cycled tank harder?
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2010, 03:20:03 AM »

 Grin, lol, thanks Summer Time  Wink

if it is only like that you must not worry.... but I know how you feel, I felt the same and almost went nuts and was frightened when I saw this the first time....
just keep treating with Melafix/Pimafix according to bottle instructions and your fishie will be fine Wink It will heal pretty quick, just keep an eye on it Smiley
( if you do have activated carbon in your filter, please remove it for the time you treat )
« Last Edit: July 30, 2010, 03:22:48 AM by Hanna » Logged
Summer Time
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Re: is a cycled tank harder?
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2010, 07:53:44 PM »

I did remove the carbon on the first day of the medicine, thanks.
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Nossie
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Re: is a cycled tank harder?
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2010, 11:15:48 AM »

Just for future needs, don't ever introduce a new fish to an already sick one that you're treating. If you do so, you're putting the old fish in risk of getting infected by something the new fish might carry with it, and you put the new fish in the risk of getting infected with what you're treating the old one for. Just so you'll know Smiley

And later, when you'll get a bigger tank, keep the 10 gallon as a hospital/quarantine tank! It's very useful Wink Both when treating sick fish, and when quarantining new ones Smiley (Which should be kept there for at least 2 weeks!)
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Summer Time
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Re: is a cycled tank harder?
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2010, 04:19:31 PM »

That's a good idea. 

I wasn't sure about putting the new fish in.  But I think I read somewhere, that you should put in Melafix any time you get a new fish - so I thought I was taking care of both problems at one time.

I want to be prepared the next time I have a problem.  Do you treat your fish EVERY time he gets a tear?

What is the name of the medicine that you use for treating fin rot?
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Nossie
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Re: is a cycled tank harder?
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2010, 05:30:06 AM »

I haven't treated my fish for any tears. Actually, they should be easily avoided as long as the water quality is good Smiley
But it could be good, if the tear won't go away in one/two days, to treat with some melafix or something similar.
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Hanna
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Re: is a cycled tank harder?
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2010, 04:13:59 PM »

It depends how big the tear is, if it is small I don't treat, I watch it. If it isn't gone after a couple of days, then I start treating.
But it only happened twice to Humphrey, only.
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Mindemae
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Re: is a cycled tank harder?
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2010, 12:16:49 PM »

Sometimes a fish's fin will tear when there is a water quality issue, so before you treat check your water for ammonia, nitrites and nitrogen levels.  Sometimes if ammonia or nitrites are more than zero or if nitrates are more than 40 you will see something on your fish that is not quite right.  A simple water change and bacteria booster and or filter modification will be enough so that your fish will swim comfortably again and you won't need to treat with any medications. Smiley
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