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Author Topic: Have a question about tank size and health.  (Read 6796 times)
GoldFishNoob
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2011, 04:59:10 PM »

Yeah I really need a house with a backyard so I can build a pond to put these guys in. That would be so nice.

50 gal for $40 huh. That's not too bad. I've seen em for like 200+ and I'm like O.O What? Oh no way. I'm working on getting some cash so I can get a filter for it. PetCo has nice ones for less than $20 that would work.
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GoldFishNoob
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2011, 07:18:50 PM »

Just a random Q but how do you guys feel about bubblers?
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Dragonii
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2011, 08:14:55 PM »

I don't care for them but that is personal preference. They don't hurt anything but they don't really do anything other than add oxygen to the water. If you have proper filtration there is no need for them.


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Summer Time
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2011, 11:55:29 PM »

Hi and welcome to the forum.  In the video you posted it looks like you have 7 fish, not 4, unless I'm looking at it wrong.

A turkey baster makes it easier to clean out the old food and poo, and are only about 79 cents at the grocery store.  Until you get a filter.  I still sometimes use mine to get those stubborn pieces of whatever that the vacuum doesn't pick up when I'm cleaning it.

You'll find a lot of great (and true  Smiley) advice on this forum.  There's a valuable core group of people here with years and years of successful experience, or even lesser experience with lots of reading and studying.  If there is some advice that you are skeptical of, you can always research it further on the internet.  We learn from each other's experiences and share advice on the best brands of goldfish food, feeding vegetables, hand-feeding, filters, etc.

I'm glad you are trying to help your fish.  It's fun and very rewarding.  They will love you for 20+ years  Grin  Please keep it up and take good care of them, they need you a lot, especially now.    Smiley



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GoldFishNoob
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2011, 12:54:33 AM »

There's 4. What you were probably seeing was the reflection of the fish on the top of the water.

Thank you. Smiley I'm trying to do right by them and take care of the as much as I can. I don't have alot of money so it's a little bit of a challenge to get everything they need right now. My main priority right now is to concentrate on getting a filter, that's the most vital thing for their health. I love all animals (Except mosquitos XD ) and I get very attached to my pets and care about them. I love these 4 little guys already and I've only had them a week.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 01:03:54 AM by GoldFishNoob » Logged
GoldFishNoob
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2011, 01:50:58 AM »

O.k. I'm thinking of either getting a bio-wheel filter or a tetra whisper filter. I'm leaning more towards the Tetra. But I want some second oppinions. Smiley
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Nossie
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2011, 02:42:30 AM »

A bigger tank is the most vital thing for their health, but a filter will do for the time being.

An air stone would definitely be beneficial in your tank since it's so small and there's no way it would house enough oxygen for four goldfish. Stones, lines and pumps are usually very cheap, and you could use it in the bigger tank later if you feel like it.
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GoldFishNoob
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2011, 03:19:36 AM »

So small? It's a 10 gal tank. I don't get how that's "Small" It's a dozen steps up from what they had. I'm doing the best I can as fast as financially possible and if they die then don't expect me to blame myself. I'm already doing that enough with all the stress of being pressured to get a bigger tank I can't afford by tomorrow. I'm sorry if I sound annoyed...I'm just feeling very overwhelmed by all this info being thrown at me and I was'nt expecting to be spending money like I'm housing a whale. I really don't know who would take them, or even some of them. If I give them to a pet store they'll probably be sold as feeders and if I give them to some one else there's a pretty good chance they'll be even less informed than me and keep them in a small fish bowl were they'll die even faster.

Now...what is an air stone and where can I get one?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 03:35:33 AM by GoldFishNoob » Logged
fantailer
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2011, 03:50:54 AM »

I know how you feel. Its like you look at the ten gallon "wooooow big tank!". Then you find out the real info and your tank seems so small and feeble. But it isn't wierd right!

Anyway a airstone is a  bubbling machine that prevent build up of carbon dioxide.
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Skwishee
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2011, 04:00:21 AM »

I imagine you can find most air stones and the such in pet shops or aquarium shops.
Air stones come in all different sorts of shapes and sizes,  mine for example is like a stone bar that has a nice line of bubbles my goldfish likes to swim through.

With the air stone, all you need with it is an air pump and tube, then you simply 'plug' the tube into the air pump and the other end into the air stone and voila  Smiley

I have seen them sell small air pumps with a tube and air stone included for free, so perhaps see if you can find any sets like that? OR buy an air pump and the tubing and air stone seperate, here tubing/airstones are only between 1-2, very cheap, but I don't know how much they are in your area.

The air stone will help with producing more oxygen in the tank, which will in turn not only help out the goldfish but also the bacteria in tank while it cycles Smiley
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GoldFishNoob
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2011, 04:34:14 AM »

I just looked up air stones. The stones and the tubing is cheap, but the air pump'll cost as much as the filter and I need both so....I wonder which one would be most important to get first. *scratches chin* Probably the air stone/tube/pump right? Since you said it'll help the cycling process which involves the filter.

Over the next 2-3 months I'll probably get my hands on anywhere between $30-$40 and that's not including my birthday next month. So I'll slowly be able to accumulate the important things I need. Maybe even sooner depending. If I keep the tank clean and the water changed every day what are the odds of them living that long? 

I understand that a large tank is important, but if I don't deal with this oxygen/filter situation, my fish won't live to see a bigger tank.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 05:01:23 AM by GoldFishNoob » Logged
Dragonii
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2011, 08:27:33 AM »

Filter is more important than air bubbles. Hands down, no question about it. Buubles will do nothing but oxygenate the water, filter will do that and much more, like clean the water.

What filter are you looking at? Give me a link to it and I will tell what I think about it.
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Dragonii
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2011, 09:25:32 AM »

For hang on power filters I would recommend the tried and true AquaClear, at least an AquaClear 20 for a 10 gallon. Another good one is the Fluval C series. These are both good filters and don't require that you constantly buy new media and filters for them so they are cheap to operate. But if you use a hang on you will have to put more water in the tank. They need it almost full in order to work, but like I said, I think you would be ok filling that tank.

Next option would be internal power filters. These are good as they will work in anything, even a Rubbermaid tub. Downfall is that they don't usually provide a lot of bio filtration and they are rather pricey.

Next is the good old fashion under gravel filter. They may not be the most technologically advance filtration systems, but they work. They are cheap, can be adjusted to different water depths and never break down. They do require an air pump (that is the most costly investment with them) and a good gravel bed (1.5 - 2 inches deep). They also require that you use a siphon to clean the gravel.


Cheapest option, and what I recommend for you at the moment since you have such a tight budget... internal air operated sponge filters.
You can get these on Ebay for under $3, attach an air pump (you can get one of those on ebay for $10) and you will have enough filtration for that 10 gallon. Don't let the size and price fool you. These things do one **** of a job. Internal air sponge filters are what we always used in pet stores for our free standing quarantine tanks. I know people with large tanks (over 100 gallons) that put these things in their sumps for additional filtration due to how effective they are.
[image]

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Air pump
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So there, $12.78 + some air tubing.... so for under $15 you have a filter.   It's not perfect, but it will hold you over for a while.

Now when you get a big tank we will talk about serious filtration. Maybe I will show you how to build your own wet/dry filtration system using plastic storage boxes and pot scrubbers from the dollar store. Grin
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GoldFishNoob
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2011, 03:04:58 PM »

I was thinking about either getting one of these (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.) or one of these (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.) but I will certainly consider the ebay options. I could add more water to the tank, I've just been playing it safe to check for leaks ect but I think if it was going to fail it would have done it already. I mean the tank is practically brand new, I have;nt used it for much cause I bought it for when one of my 2 largest tarantulas get full grown. But that'll be years from now really. And by then the tank may be empty again and the fish might be in someting alot bigger. Wink

I don't really see a UG filter working because of how little gravel I have right now and I don't have a syphon, I have to get in there and shuffle the gravel to free the debre when I clean. Which my fish seem to like btw and they come over and investigate and pick at the gravel. They also seem to really enjoy the bubbles that are made when I clean. Smiley  It's fun to interact with them and see how active they get when I clean. I think I might miss that once I get a filter/airstone. XD Just now when my laptop was coming on I turned around and saw my biggest goldie and my little guy at the glass watching me. Just sitting there side by side like "Hi! Watcha doin? Clean tank please?"
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 03:17:57 PM by GoldFishNoob » Logged
GoldFishNoob
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2011, 04:10:56 PM »

Also, what does output mean when talking about air pumps?
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Dragonii
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #45 on: September 21, 2011, 04:13:55 PM »

The Aqueon is the better of the two but either one of them will require that you constantly buy replacement filter pads for them. I don't like that. I prefer filters that have reusable filter media because I don't see the point in constantly buying and throwing away something when it's not needed. Considering how tight cash is you don't want something that is going make you buy replacement cartridges ever time you turn around.
I know the Aqueon filter is cheap, but the cartridges are $6.39 for a pack of three and you will be replacing then every two to three weeks. The Whisper filters are about $3 for two. This idea of "you need to buy a new cartridge every time it gets dirty" is something that has been growing in the field. The companies that make the filters have discovered that they can make more money if you have to buy a new filter every two or three weeks.

The AquaClear is "old school". It has been around for many years. It was considered "old school" when I started in the hobby 20 years ago. But it works. Plain and simple. They do the job and they do it well.


The AquaClear filters have these large foam blocks in them that you clean and reuse. I think the Fluval C series is the same way.
With them you never have to worry about digging up a few dollars to buy new filters. Cheap to own, cheap to operate, can't argue with that.

If you go hang on power filter, this would be the best choice for you. Get the 20 model. It's $26.99 at Petco but there is no recurring cost after that.
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If $27 is kind of high, go with the ebay sponge filter... or better yet, I may be able to make you something and all you will need is a $10 air pump. I think you can even get one of those for about $13 at Walmart.
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Nossie
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #46 on: September 21, 2011, 04:19:56 PM »

I didn't mean to sound harsh or anything, all of us have more or less gone through the same thing here, I was saving money for a year before I managed to grab an 80 gallon for the 7 fish I had! D: (I originally had 3, but you know.. I got hooked, so I got a big tank so I could add more fish later... x'D) I had an 8 and a 10 gallon keeping 2 fantails in one, and a fantail and a moor in the other (I borrowed the 10 from some relatives). Right before I had that big tank at my house (finally), I honestly had 5 fish in the ten gallon and one in the 8, changing water every second day, and then almost all of it at a time because of the nitrates.

So, in the end I was just trying to set the priorities straight (being my picky self.) so I'm sorry in case I gave you a hard time :/

Back to the topic: An air stone will help, but a filter will help more, since an air stone won't clean the water the same way a filter would Smiley
Dragonii got the filter business covered though!! I always just sort of buy whatever sounds powerful where I can stick media of my own choice into, not too complicated in the end, but not too good advice either Tongue
UG filters are generally not strong enough for goldfish, and it will only draw the dirt down into the gravel where the goldfish will go looking for food, so imo, they should rather be avoided Smiley

I think your goldies really like you Smiley And it's so great that you're trying so hard! Many people just decide "whatever..." after coming here with problems like ammonia burns and dying fish. Really sweet of them to come peek at you Wink
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Dragonii
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #47 on: September 21, 2011, 04:22:11 PM »

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Also, what does output mean when talking about air pumps?

Output is how much air it will push out. Some are stronger than others. They are measured in different ways. Could be cubic inch per minute, p.s.i or just tank size. If you see them labeled with numbers like 20 or 200 that is usually tank size (20 gallon). What they consider in rating them is tank depth. The deeper the water the stronger the pump has to be to counter the pressure of the water. You will even find that if you locate the pump above the water level it will output more air than it will if it is sitting lower than the tank.

Make sure to get one rated at least for a 10 gallon.
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Dragonii
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #48 on: September 21, 2011, 04:30:41 PM »

Nossie, I agree with you on being able to use your own media. I have never liked being forced to buy filter cartridges. I gave away a 12 gallon Marineland Eclipse system because of that. I was shocked at how much the maintenance cost was with buying those things.
As for UG, I never cared for them. Got into an argument one time with a neighbor over them. I had suggested that he get a better filter, guess he didn't take advice very well. lol But if you are hard up for cash, they are better than nothing. I would rather have the sponge filters though.
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Nossie
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #49 on: September 21, 2011, 04:47:16 PM »

Heh Wink Some people just can't take any advice without thinking you hid a whole "you're useless, can't think on your own at all"-message in the sentence... Tongue
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GoldFishNoob
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #50 on: September 21, 2011, 05:07:25 PM »

Hey no problem Nossie. Smiley No hard feelings at all. I was just sorta in a bad mood when I said all that. :/ So it was'nt you. I really do appreciate all the helpful advice and cluing me in on cheap deals.

I'm certainly trying. It'll be worth it to see them in a nice, clean tank eventually. So far they seem to be surpisingly healthy and active. I mean....at least they don't have dropsy or fin rot or swim bladder or some other gnarly, potentually deadly illness.

Dragonii, I do think I like the sound of sponge filters better now that you mention the constantly having to change the media and such.

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GoldFishNoob
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #51 on: September 21, 2011, 05:36:38 PM »

A PetCo representative reccomended the Tetra Whisper. XD But if paying nearly $30 means I won't have to buy cartidges every 2-3 weeks....I'd go with the Aqua Clear. Or better if I can get my hads on the Ebay stuff above. But if I do I'll have to convince my dad to let me put the money in his bank account (Since I don't have my own right now) and order off ebay with his card...*Eeek eeek eeek* If I show them the steal prices and the free shipping they may consider it.

Is this the one?  (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 05:52:17 PM by GoldFishNoob » Logged
Dragonii
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #52 on: September 21, 2011, 06:41:43 PM »

Yep, that's the AquaClear. I would get the 20 model, not the 10.

The reason I recommend the sponge filters is first, the cost, second the fact that you plan to upgrade the tank at some point to a bigger one. At least if you go the sponge filter route you will have an air pump that you could use in the bigger tank in the future since you seem to like the idea of bubbles.

Let me know what you want to do. Like I said, I can help you out by building you a sponge/fluidized bed filter.
Kind of like this but combined with a sponge...
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They are very effective and I would enjoy the project. All you would need to go with it would be an air pump.
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GoldFishNoob
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #53 on: September 21, 2011, 06:57:29 PM »

That's neat. Is that basically how a real filter works? It would be nice and I can use the money I would be using on a filter, to get a pump instead. If you make me one, how would I get it? I can't pay for shipping or anything right now. Also, that one would be far too large for my 10 gal, is it easy to adjust sizes?
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Dragonii
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #54 on: September 21, 2011, 07:21:35 PM »

Shipping wouldn't be but a few dollars, I can handle that.

I have a 10 gallon that I use as a quarantine tank, I would use that as a model.

Different filters work in different ways, but they all have one thing in common... the catch physical particals and the provide a place for bacteria to grow. In that one, the bacteria grows on drinking straws cut up in little small pieces. The movement provides oxygen for the bacteria.
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GoldFishNoob
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #55 on: September 21, 2011, 07:27:51 PM »

Smiley That would be awesome. And then I could get the pump from ebay and I'll be set for a bit...but how effective is it as keeping the water clean and clear like a normal filter? In the video you said, "It has'nt really done anything for me yet." which makes me question it's effectiveness...
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 08:23:03 PM by GoldFishNoob » Logged
Dragonii
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #56 on: September 21, 2011, 08:25:51 PM »

They're pretty effective, not perfect, but it's better than what you have now.
Do you have a facebook page?
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Dragonii
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #57 on: September 21, 2011, 08:34:36 PM »

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Smiley That would be awesome. And then I could get the pump from ebay and I'll be set for a bit...but how effective is it as keeping the water clean and clear like a normal filter? In the video you said, "It has'nt really done anything for me yet." which makes me question it's effectiveness...


lol, that isn't me. And he is just using the bio filter. Bio filters take time to grow bacteria.

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use it to add me on Facebook. I never actually check it.

Don't ask. lol
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GoldFishNoob
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #58 on: September 21, 2011, 08:40:04 PM »

Lol ah I see...how do I use that to add you on face book, just send you a message asking for your FB name?

Let me think about it a little bit and I'll get back to you. I may hit up Amazon for one of these (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 08:43:53 PM by GoldFishNoob » Logged
Dragonii
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Re: Have a question about tank size and health.
« Reply #59 on: September 21, 2011, 08:54:10 PM »

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Lol ah I see...how do I use that to add you on face book, just send you a message asking for your FB name?

Let me think about it a little bit and I'll get back to you. I may hit up Amazon for one of these (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)

That's a good price. Go for it if you can get it.
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