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Author Topic: new tanks?'s/snails  (Read 699 times)
Mearwynna
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new tanks?'s/snails
« on: January 08, 2012, 11:56:51 PM »

Our bigger 37 gallon tank is getting close to when we can add the goldfish to it. It's been cycling since a few weeks before christmas. The test strips show it as safe on nitrites and the nitrates are a pale pink. Algea is growing great, I actually had to clean it off the tank already. The live plant is dead so we need to replace it. I think the bad water when we first set it up had something to do with that. It smells much better!

 I have some questions.

Overfeeding is going to happen at some point. I've been reading that snails can help eat old food that isn't appealing for the goldfish. So at petsmart I saw some mystery snails. Haven't bought one yet, but I have a question on water and I've heard that they lay a lot of eggs and it is annoying.

Our tap water is well water that is softened. So do snails prefer a harder water? Will it not do well in the 37 gallon with softened water?
It's possible we can bypass the softener and use the well water, but that has it's own issues. I would worry about minerals and iron in the water then. I know the water is o.k. for nitrites because we had it tested.
So, would it be o.k. for a snail or do we need to start using the well water when we do water changes?
To gradually make it harder?

Our goldfish ( now named Sebastian Pearl) is doing very well in the 10 gallon tank, but he needs to get in his new home.

I've been thinking about getting some minnows into the big tank for a few weeks before we put him in it. We've been feeding the tank fish food to help the bacteria grow but I want to be sure the bacteria are really started before we put him in it. I was thinking that some small creatures ( a couple minnows and a snail) might help to make it safer before we add him. I was going to add him in a few weeks, at the end of January.

Anyway, I can't find out if minnows would work o.k. with goldfish. Or if he would eat them, or how much waste they produce and how that would affect Sebastian. I was thinking 4 or 5 of them. Would it be a big deal if he ate them? They seem to be twice as large as the little feeder guppies we had for a brief time.

O.k... that's enough questions for now. Sorry I wrote a book.  Smiley
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Skwishee
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Re: new tanks?'s/snails
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2012, 06:13:17 AM »

Hey Mearwynna!

Great news on the tank cycling  Smiley
Glad to hear Sebastian is doing well! What type of goldfish is he? (You originally had 3 fantails and a common?)

As far as I've heard minnows can either go well, or end badly. As far as water quality goes, as long as the tank is cycled and you gradually stock the tank (not all at once) the bacteria will multiply with the slowly increasing bio load. So the minnows won't affect the goldfish in terms of their waste, as long as the tank is cycled properly.

The general rule for goldfish and compatibility with other fish to keep in mind, is if it can fit in the goldfish's mouth, it will try to eat it. I have heard people keep minnows, the White Cloud variety and the goldfish have either eaten them or the minnows have been too quick for them. I haven't tried it myself, so I am just going on what I've seen, it's a bit of a mix of responses, the other fish I have heard people mention are adult Danio's. Whether these are much bigger than the White Cloud I'm not sure.

But if Sebastian is a fancy variety of goldfish (20 gallons for the first, 10 gallons for each additional fish), I don't see why you couldn't get him a goldfish friend instead? Smiley

As for snails (I sure do love snails!), I believe the Mystery snail (also known as the Apple Snail) are sexed. They are not hermaphroditic. So if you buy one, you will be fine  Wink Or if you know how to gender them, you could buy two of the same gender.

The snails that people report being annoying and laying eggs everywhere, are the Bladder snails, these guys are hermaphroditic, I have been keeping some myself as I quite like them. But as an example, I started with 3 snails, now I have 20 snails and every week I destroy between 3 - 5 egg sacs, probably even more some weeks. I do this to keep the population under control.
Now imagine how many snails I would have, if I hadn't been destroying all those eggs  Wink

I'm not too sure on the needs of Mystery snails, I'm sure one of the others here who has them can comment on that.
I personally don't do anything to my water and my guys survive, but the Bladder snails are pretty hardy things, they can live in stagnant/still water. I imagine however for the Mystery snail it is a different story.

If you are careful with food and how much you give little Sebastian, I don't think you'll have to worry too much about over feeding and any left over food remaining in the gravel will be sucked up by a gravel cleaner as part of your weekly water change/cleaning of the tank.

That said, Snails can be a great addition to a tank and I simply love mine! Even if they are a pest to some Cheesy
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 09:13:54 AM by Skwishee » Logged
Nossie
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Re: new tanks?'s/snails
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2012, 07:36:08 AM »

Just add the snails, they're not picky with their water quality, had a few myself Smiley
And minnows are just fine with goldfish, they grow a little bigger than most, to goldfish, edible fish. Like Skwishee suggested, a goldfish friend would be fine to add too, but then you could rather skip on the minnows, just to make sure it isn't over stocked.
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Mearwynna
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Re: new tanks?'s/snails
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2012, 01:31:45 PM »

oh, good. We are going to try a few minnows just for a little diversity in the tank and one snail.

We'll feed him carefully, and try not to let the little kids over feed him. Food does fly around in a big tank though and it can get lost so maybe a few extra animals will help clean that up. I won't worry about the water. So mystery snails are apple snails and they will get really big?

Sebastian is a fantail, he looks a lot like a ryunkin in body type but his fins are really full and pretty. He is a calico. I will try and get a picture up. I won't  get a buddy for him until February.
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Nossie
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Re: new tanks?'s/snails
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2012, 02:23:57 PM »

I think they could reach a size of two inches, but I've never seen a mystery snail that big myself Smiley

Good thing you're not in a hurry with the second goldie Wink

However, it sort of worries me that the kids could be overfeeding the fish... maybe you should hide the food away and only give them the amount to feed in their hands? A single fish only needs about 4 normal sized pellets.
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Skwishee
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Re: new tanks?'s/snails
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2012, 05:19:20 PM »

I'd agree with Nossie on this one about the food, if you're using flakes, what you could do is teach the goldfish to eat from your fingers first, very simple, wet your finger and thumb, soak a flake on your finger so it gets damp and hold it under the water for the goldfish. It may take a while, it took me a few days before Lucky came to my hand and now she nibbles it every time I'm in the tank to check if I have any food for her!

Once your fish does this, you could start to teach your children to do the same, so at feeding times let them hand feed say one or two flakes to the goldfish each. This way it wouldn't over feed the goldfish and I am sure they would love the experience  Smiley

In fact you could probably do the same thing with a soaked pellet in your hand, I hand feed Lucky pea's as well as freeze dried and frozen food!
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Mearwynna
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Re: new tanks?'s/snails
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2012, 02:50:29 PM »

skwishee, that's a good idea. When I tried this Sebastian acted like he thought I was predator. The kids would love it if he would eat from their fingers.
We have rules about feeding the fish, once a day and when everyone is watching so nobody feels left out. I also put the food up so the little ones can't reach it. So over feeding on the scale of what happened before shouldn't happen again (cross our fingers!)

We got the minnows and the snail and added them to the tank. I'm impressed with the quality of the fish at this petco. They all looked really healthy and nice.
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Nossie
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Re: new tanks?'s/snails
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2012, 04:28:34 PM »

Will you post pictures later? Smiley
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Skwishee
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Re: new tanks?'s/snails
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2012, 06:28:51 PM »

Haha yeah, I imagine Sebastian will be a little wary! In my first attempts, the flake would get so wet, because Lucky was really unsure and would take ages, that it would always end up slipping out of my fingers XD

It may take a few days, but I'm sure he'll realise soon enough Wink
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Mearwynna
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Re: new tanks?'s/snails
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2012, 09:07:36 PM »

[image]



Ladies and Gentlemen,

Fellow Goldfish Enthusiasts,

Please allow me to introduce Sebastian Pearl, of the Blue Pearl People.

This photo was taken in the small tank in November. I'm going to get a better photo and maybe some videos tomorrow.
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Nossie
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Re: new tanks?'s/snails
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2012, 03:17:09 AM »

He has the exact same markings as my late calico @_@
I like that color on the gravel, very nice Smiley

And I'd like to add that when I feed my fish, I usually take a small pinch of flakes at a time and soak them in the tank water, that way the goldfish can just come and nibble from there. Of course a flake or two will stick to your fingers (you have to pinch pretty firmly if you don't want all of it to fall out from between your fingers at once), this method is very useful if you have some smaller fish too that can grab a flake or two that drops Wink Figured it might be easier for your minnows to get their share this way Smiley
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Skwishee
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Re: new tanks?'s/snails
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2012, 04:27:24 AM »

Haha I feed one flake at a time and it does stick to my fingers, but Lucky quite happily nibbles it off Cheesy

Mearwynna what a beautiful fish ^_^
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Ron H
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Re: new tanks?'s/snails
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2012, 05:58:00 AM »

very lovely fish, looks a lot like my Snowie, there is a pic of her half way down the page at this link (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.) . Cheers all
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Mearwynna
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Re: new tanks?'s/snails
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2012, 05:19:57 PM »

Wow, Ron. I'm really amazed at how similar the fish are. I haven't actually been able to tell if  Sebastian is really a male or not. I think he needs to grow a bit more. You have some lovely pictures.

He's rounder now, I think we must be feeding him pretty good.
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Mearwynna
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Re: new tanks?'s/snails
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2012, 09:34:59 PM »

So let me ask a question about stress. This might belong in another thread so we can move it if need be. Sebastian has been acting a little down again,not swimming as much as usual since I cleaned the algea off his tank walls and did a water change three days ago. He acted like this when we came home and I changed his water, too. Spent a couple days being very quiet and mostly resting at the bottom although he did come looking for food.

His test strips look great. Not a bit of nitrites, very mild pink on the nitrates, and no amonia. So it can't be immediate ammonia poisoning, but could it be that he gets stressed out by the water changes? Am I changing too much? I probable did a 50% or a bit more to get the cloudy water out of his tank. I did add streeszyme and easy balance (or something like it, I can't remember the name.) I did change hi filter to a clean one and it isn't helping with the green water.
His tank's water is greenish again now and I'm not sure what to do. More water changes will stress him out more. The green water isn't very nice, so what can we do? I guess it's an algea problem?
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Nossie
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Re: new tanks?'s/snails
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2012, 04:46:27 AM »

I wonder from where the algae come... do you have any live plants? Usually a few bushes of Java Fern and anubias will help with algae Smiley You could also get a few ancistrus catfish, these are very keen on keeping the tank free of algae!
You should actually not clean it off yourself except for the front window or the ornaments, because green algae is a sign of good water quality.

Do you try to keep the temperature of the water similar to the main tank when you change it out?
How long do you keep the lights on in the tank?
When you say "change his filter to a clean one", do you mean just the filter media or the entire filter? If the media, did you change just half as is appropriate?
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Skwishee
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Re: new tanks?'s/snails
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2012, 05:31:07 AM »

Hmm I was going to ask about the filter media too.

Where about's is your aquarium placed in your home? Does it get any strong sun light or is it near a window?

Also I found this about the green water - (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)

So if it isn't harmful like the article says, you could leave it alone.

Hmmm I wonder why Sebastian's acting up. Has his behaviour changed, or is he still bottom sitting and being lethargic?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 05:38:26 AM by Skwishee » Logged
Mearwynna
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Re: new tanks?'s/snails
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2012, 09:50:55 AM »

He's still a little lethargic, but I noticed his water flow was slowing down so I rinsed of the little screen thing on the intake. I think it was clogged with algea bits or plant bits, and he wasn't getting enough oxygen. So after that, the water flow was stronger and he did perk up. That was last night, so we'll see how he does today. We are not going to feed him today.

I left the back tank alone and only scraped of the sides and the front so we can see him. His 10 gallon (hospital) tank sits on the counter  and there is a kitchen window nearby but it doesn't shine directly on it. I think I'm going to shade the part of the tank nearest the window and we ordered a moss ball for each tank. It will take a few days to arrive. I think it will get better if we put a plant in there. Just a plastic one right now.

We have these blue filter cartrages (sp)  that we change in the filter every 2 to 4 weeks. That's what I changed. It was really dirty. Maybe letting it go 4 weeks wasn't a good idea.

Actually, the water is coming straight from the tap. I was just making it luke warm and adding it in. I was wondering if we should let it sit out for a while in a bucket.

The new, big tank also has algea in it but it's doing better. We did get a new plant to go in there. I'm thinking a plant would help.
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Nossie
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Re: new tanks?'s/snails
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2012, 02:24:02 PM »

You can leave filter media in much longer than 4 weeks, as long as you rinse it well in a bucket of old tank water Smiley

Did you add water conditioner to the tap water? (I'm pretty sure you did, but I just have to make sure)
The reasons to let water sit would be for temperature and possible removal of chlorine, although the latter is pure fiction.
As long as you have a good water conditioner, it's fine to add straight to the tank Smiley
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Mearwynna
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Re: new tanks?'s/snails
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2012, 03:47:28 PM »

We added stresszyme and easy balance, basically good bacteria and enzymes. No chlorine here, we have softened well water.
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Skwishee
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Re: new tanks?'s/snails
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2012, 04:23:16 PM »

Yes Nossie is right  Smiley the only filter media that you really have to change 2 - 8 weeks, is if you use carbon in a filter.

I've got a small internal filter on Lucky's 21 litre tank, since I set it up and apart from the carbon pad, I haven't needed to change it. That was almost 5 months ago now! It occasionally needs a rinse in old tank water every now and then, in fact the other day the filter was making odd noises, but a quick sort out of the filter media and it stopped Smiley
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Nossie
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Re: new tanks?'s/snails
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2012, 01:59:18 AM »

Okay, then everything should be in order... but I didn't really catch, do you still have him in the 10 gallon, or did you move him already?
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Mearwynna
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Re: new tanks?'s/snails
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2012, 10:08:19 AM »

Still in the 10, I think we can move him pretty soon though. The big tank hasn't shown a spike (nitrites) from the minnows or snail yet  I think, bacteria wise, things are o.k. over there. I don't want him to stress out again though over a new move. So maybe another week.
He's perking up today and is almost his usual self. I guess we'll try rinsing the filter pad in tank water tonight when we do his water change. 

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Nossie
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Re: new tanks?'s/snails
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2012, 04:51:30 AM »

Good Smiley Good luck on the move later! Wink
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Skwishee
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Re: new tanks?'s/snails
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2012, 05:22:33 AM »

Good luck Mearwynna  Cheesy
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Ron H
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Re: new tanks?'s/snails
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2012, 01:37:35 AM »

Cheers Mearwynna, hope it all goes well for you.  >Ron
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