Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 23, 2014, 01:43:21 AM
Home Search Search Login Register

+  Pet Goldfish - Aquarium Forum Community
|-+  Aquarium
| |-+  Health and Illness
| | |-+  Fantail mystery
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: Fantail mystery  (Read 576 times)
cypher000
Newbie
*

Karma: 0
Posts: 4


Fantail mystery
« on: April 18, 2013, 11:38:55 AM »

Hi Guy's. It is so good of you to let me join you on here. I am new to fish keeping. I have a 30ltr BIORB with two Fantail Goldfish and two Cloud Mountain Minnows. They are so happy and have been eating and playing for all of the six weeks I have had them.
However, I have noticed that one of the Fantails keeps going to the top of the Biorb and staying there, perfectly still, with hardly any movement of her fins. She will stay like that for almost half an hour, then she comes down and seems to be okay. Before long though she is back up there again, doing the same thing.
Is this normal? None of the others do it. What can I do to help her? She is eating......in there like a farmyard pig as soon as feeding time comes. I used to feed them three times a day. Now I feed them Flak with the odd bit of Bloodworm every 12 hours, 10pm and 10am. I am sick with worry. Can you give me some idea as to what I should do now as I would hate to lose her. Thank you for any advice you can give her. We call her Mrs Salt. Regards Walt.
Logged
Vicloz2006
Full Member
***

Karma: 35
Posts: 558



Re: Fantail mystery
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2013, 06:21:51 AM »

The tank you have isn't big enough for fantails I'm afraid. They need 30L for the first fish on its own. Also have you checked the water quality? If you take a sample to your local pet shop they should test it for you.
Logged
cypher000
Newbie
*

Karma: 0
Posts: 4


Re: Fantail mystery
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2013, 11:33:35 AM »

Hi there. Many thanks for the reply. Very sad but there is not a lot I can do about that. I am 80 and have cancer. I cannot get out a lot and not very far at that. I cannot see that the water quality should be so bad. It is has a 50% change every monday. The pump is never off and the filtration is superb. I add Tap Water declorinator to the replacement water 24 hours before I use it and always get it to the same temperature. I also add a cleaner to the change water to degrade any ammonia and nitrites there might be. So on the face of it, the water ought to be fine.

My fantails are most of the time very active and seem happy. One of them is no problem whatever, it is just Mrs Salt that I am worried about. She has been laid at the top of the tank for an hour before diving down and playing  with her mate again. The other doesn't do this, so what is the problem. The both eat at the designated feed times and they do not get overfed. If no one can give me an answer, what do I do, put her in the freezer and have done with her? That would break my heart. Walt.
Logged
Fantail Fan
Newbie
*

Karma: 0
Posts: 1


Re: Fantail mystery
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2013, 02:53:37 PM »

Hi cypher000,

Sorry to hear about your health issues.

I'm a bit new to the goldfish world myself, but the 2 things I thought of when you mentioned floating at the top:

1 If she looks like she is "gasping" at the top of the water, it could be water quality. Since the tank is small, it might be very dirty even with the weekly change. I have 40 l for 2 small fantails and I do a 75% change every 2 days right now, and even then my nitrite/ammonia levels sometimes go above 0. I need a bigger tank.

2 Does she look like she is floating and having a bit of difficulty swimming to the bottom, especially struggling as she reaches deeper levels? Or has trouble swimming upright? Or if she stops swimming she automatically rises? Could be swim bladder issues which can sometimes be caused by constipation. Sometimes fish can float sideways or even upside down because of it.

Constipation can be helped by feeding peas and withholding other foods for a couple days. Use unsalted. I use frozen ones. Pour boiling water on them and let it cool. Then remove the shell and discard, and cut the remaining pea into pieces small enough for your fish. Feed 1 to 2 peas. Supposedly should help any blockages.

Swim bladder can also be affected by bacteria, for which your local pet shop should be able to provide medication. Some fish have malformed bladders or damaged ones, but there is not much to be done about it as far as I know. From what I've read, as long as it isn't too severe, they can still live happily.

Good luck!
Logged
cypher000
Newbie
*

Karma: 0
Posts: 4


Re: Fantail mystery
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2013, 06:28:43 AM »

Hi again. Well I have done a little better this morning. Mrs Salt is still with us and to be honest doesn't look all that bad. Yes she is still having to fight her way to the bottom of the tank, making all sorts of upside down, sideways and you name it antics to get there. Sadly she no sooner gets there than she is floated back to the top again. Tragic! So I think it safe to say that she has Trim Bladder problems. Whether caused by constipation or not, I must determine.

Anyway I have had the water tested and got a clear 0 from the aquarium shop owner. He said it was perfect, or as perfect as it could be for a home environment. So now I know it is not the water at the root of the problem. He said my food regime was okay, but maybe damp the food before putting it into the tank.

Put two soft, skinless peas in the water this morning. As anticipated it was gobbled up before Mrs Salt could get to the bottom to try it. Going to have to think of something, maybe putting her into a large dish or bowl, on her own, so that she can eat some peas. Worried about oxygen for her if I do.#]

Hope this info helps you to think of something useful. Regards Walt.
Logged
Vicloz2006
Full Member
***

Karma: 35
Posts: 558



Re: Fantail mystery
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2013, 06:55:35 AM »

It might be a good idea to seperate her from the others if she isn't getting to the food in time. Another tank would be best but if you don't have one a large bowl would be fine you may have to change some of the water twice daily just to keep the water quality good. Try it for a day or two and see how she goes on.
Logged
cypher000
Newbie
*

Karma: 0
Posts: 4


Re: Fantail mystery
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2013, 11:28:55 AM »

Hello again my friend. Yes I was seriously thinking I would have to do this, but there have been dramatic developments since my last post. I thought I would have one more try and popped two more peas into the tank, cut into small pieces. There was the obvious stampede, but this time Mrs Salt had made her way down to the bottom and I actually spotted her grab a piece of pea. She wolfed it down and made a dash for another piece before scuttling off, wibble wobble, twist and turn. Imagine my amazement, when half an hour later, who should come swimming up, not a wibble or wobble in sight, but Mrs Salt and do you know, she has been upright ever since. I have not seen her poo.....I wish I had, but something has made a difference. They have not had any food today, only about six softened and chopped peas. I have seen her friend pooing, so hopefully Mrs Salt will have been too. I do hope so as it has been such a distressing time watching her struggle helplessly like that. You guy's are the best, you know that. Will post again to let you know whats happening. Regards Walt.
Logged
Skwishee
Sr. Member
****

Karma: 136
Posts: 1763



Re: Fantail mystery
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2013, 05:25:14 PM »

Glad things are improving on the health front!
With regards to the tank size, would an upgrade be possible for you? Second hand tanks can be reasonable, try checking websites like pre loved, ebay or if you can find any local fish keepers they will often do a good deal if they have any spare tanks.

For 2 fantails to keep permanently you want something that's at least 4 foot in length (for swimming room), I'll double check the water volume for fancy varieties and let you know on that. It may sound a lot, but fantails can grow up to 8 - 10 inches Wink

Good luck with the fish, hope your little one continues to improve and have a think about the tank Smiley You want to do what's best for you as well as the fish!


----
Edit

Double checked on recommended stocking for fancy goldfish, from what I see for 2 fancy goldfish, you will ideally need something that's 140-150 litres minimum, preferably 4 foot as mentioned before Smiley
Generally with goldfish, the bigger you can get, the better, but not everyone can squeeze huge tanks in their rooms Wink


« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 05:19:04 AM by Skwishee » Logged
Vicloz2006
Full Member
***

Karma: 35
Posts: 558



Re: Fantail mystery
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2013, 08:24:28 PM »

That is great I am glad she is getting better. What Skwishee says is right though if it is possible you should try and upgrade it will be much better for her and her friend. Being in a tank that isn't big enough can cause health issues with the fish, I learnt that the hard way by loosing a beautiful shubunkin.
Good luck with Mrs Salt and I hope every thing goes well from here on.
Logged
kkellernurse
Newbie
*

Karma: 0
Posts: 5


Re: Fantail mystery
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2013, 10:09:32 PM »

Hello Walt, i have read your postings about your goldfish and understand through my own experience how distressing it can be to watch a fishy friend struggle.  I currently have a ryukin fantail that has a bit of a swim bladder issue as well.  not sure what has caused it but i just make sure i check on him regularly.  hes breathing and the other goldfish when interested rouse him so to speak and he will flip and swim just like normal.   I do know that when goldfish "sleep" they pretty much hover there hardly moving their fins at all just enough to keep their equilibrium.  through a lot of research and prob about a year of fish keeping i have learned that 20-30% water changes are better than 50-75%  mostly cuz it is quite stressful to the fish to have their environment shocked like that...strangely even with better water.  I always recommend extra filtration with goldfish in general so im glad you have that ironed out.  I also would greatly recommend API Stress Coat when treating new water (with normal conditioner of course)  its so beneficial first of all to their slim coat which greatly helps their immunity.  it acts as aloe vera and provides healthy bacteria to the water.  its nice to know Mrs. Salt is doing better.  Peas, broccoli, lettuce, green pepper are all enjoyed by goldfish and they will always help fight off constipation (of which goldfish are especially vulnerable) which can happen quite quickly just on flake food
Logged
Skwishee
Sr. Member
****

Karma: 136
Posts: 1763



Re: Fantail mystery
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2013, 11:29:23 AM »

Kkellernurse, I would interested in what research you have done to conclude 30% changes are better over 50%, perhaps if you are able you could make a new thread to share your information Smiley
Logged
kkellernurse
Newbie
*

Karma: 0
Posts: 5


Re: Fantail mystery
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2013, 12:49:02 PM »

well ill work on posting a thread although im not sure how to do so.  from what i remember if you vacuum the gravel which would be the dirtiest water/area and then you dont want to shock the system too much, especially if you have a sick fish so that is why i remember a recommendation of 20-30%.  because there is good bacteria in a healthy aquarium and you just want to take the level of toxicity down w/o stressing the environment so much.  but i have heard of ppl doing a partial change two days in a row.  ill go find that site though and at least tell you where you can find it.
Logged
kkellernurse
Newbie
*

Karma: 0
Posts: 5


Re: Fantail mystery
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2013, 11:10:21 PM »

through most of everything i see on google or bing they do suggest anything up to and at times 50% however i still wouldnt suggest a 50% change on anything but the healthiest goldfish.   between filtration, aeration and plants(i would always suggest live plants) i would stick with no more than 30% at one time
Logged
Skwishee
Sr. Member
****

Karma: 136
Posts: 1763



Re: Fantail mystery
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2013, 02:12:12 PM »

Ah I see, thanks Cheesy Yeah I usually take out however much water it takes to clean all the gravel, so I can see how that would apply if you could do it within the first third of the water being removed in a change. But generally as you've noted, 50% is the recommended amount.

I think partial water changes over multiple days are only necessary if there are specific water quality issues present, such as ammonia or nitrite levels. For example when I had issues with nitrite as the levels were off the charts, I was removing 50% every day, to combat it.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2013, 02:16:55 PM by Skwishee » Logged
kkellernurse
Newbie
*

Karma: 0
Posts: 5


Re: Fantail mystery
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2013, 10:01:01 PM »

ive never had to deal with any water issues.  and i always syphon when cleaning from the bottom.
Logged
Skwishee
Sr. Member
****

Karma: 136
Posts: 1763



Re: Fantail mystery
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2013, 05:29:21 AM »

Well my nitrite issues were when the tank was cycling Grin So if people are doing a fish-in cycle (which isn't the best thing really, a fishless cycle is better) daily water changes are necessary.
Logged
scrivens345
Sr. Member
****

Karma: 90
Posts: 822



Re: Fantail mystery
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2013, 07:52:58 AM »

The amount you change is dependant on the rate of Nitrate build up

A 50% water-change regime will see Nitrate levels approach 2 times the weekly nitrate increase, and a 25% change , 3 times.

Example:-
 if after 1 week your nitrate level increases by 15%

a 50% weekly change means the tank will rise a max 30% nitrate
but only changing 25% means nitrates will eventually rise to 45%, which is too high

If however your nitrate build up is only 10%, then a 25% change would be more than adequate

There are products designed to help with nitrates when  large water-changes are impractable (e.g. Tetra Easy-balance )
Logged
kkellernurse
Newbie
*

Karma: 0
Posts: 5


Re: Fantail mystery
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2013, 12:31:09 AM »

 I agree scrivens345.  I can tell you have been a hobbyist for a long while and you have great knowledge. i cycled my first tank with fish and the others ive started with established filter media and part already cycled water.
Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  
Page created in 0.15 seconds with 17 queries.