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Author Topic: Chronic swim bladder?  (Read 6361 times)
Goldiegirl
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #180 on: April 28, 2011, 04:31:03 PM »

After taking her out of the huge outdoor tank and giving Citrine a close examination I concluded that she had dropsy. Her scales were pineconing out on one side and she couldn't swim well or keep food down, so I treated her with epsom salts for about a month, but she showed no improvement. I don't know what it was that caused her dropsy, but she had always struggled with her swim bladder.

Finally I couldn't stand to see her suffer any more so I put her in the freezer. R.I.P. my darling Citrine.  Cry Cry Cry Cry
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fantailer
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #181 on: April 28, 2011, 05:35:22 PM »

R.I.P. Citrine Sad
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #182 on: April 29, 2011, 10:55:11 AM »

Thank you, fantailer. She was a sweet little girl and is severely mourned.  Sad
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Nossie
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #183 on: May 03, 2011, 10:45:37 AM »

I'm SO sorry for your loss Cry I've lost two fish from dropsy myself... it's got to be one of the worst thing that can ever happen, it's so hard to treat.
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #184 on: May 08, 2011, 06:40:05 PM »

Thank you, Nossie.  Smiley I guess now I'm at two fish lost to dropsy as well!  Cry Just when everything was going so well, look what strikes. Dropsy is BY FAR the hardest disease I've tried to treat. Most of the time I just put them down cause I can't stand to see them suffer so  Sad. I even got her 2 comet goldfish to keep her company outside so she wouldn't get lonely, but now it seems they will be the ones to feel forlorn.

Perhaps I'll do an all comet goldfish outdoor tank this summer instead.
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Nossie
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #185 on: May 09, 2011, 03:25:07 AM »

Why not? Smiley Comets are nice fish! And they are gorgeous once they grow up Wink
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Summer Time
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #186 on: May 09, 2011, 01:38:04 PM »

I think they're gorgeous when they're small, too.   Grin
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fantailer
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #187 on: May 09, 2011, 03:23:56 PM »

Yes just like every other type. Smiley
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #188 on: May 12, 2011, 10:30:57 AM »

We loves us some fishies  Cheesy I like the comets that have tails as long as their bodies! They look soooo graceful.

What do you know, its the beginning of May and we just got a snowstorm.  Shocked Hopefully the little bitties outside will be ok during this freezing cold day. I keep it covered with a lid to help with insulation. Somehow, my water never freezes over  Roll Eyes I DID put my ranchu Jade out there the day before the storm because she is in temporary punishment...I shall explain.

I really need some help about this! I have a lovely chocolate oranda named Elsie Amber who was being constantly harassed by my tiny ranchu Jade. Jade kept biting Elsie until Elsie's tail had large gashes in it. I put Jade outside for her bad behavior (bad fish, bad fish, no!) but now Elsie is suffering from a VERY SEVERE case of fin rot. It started out as nothing major, just a bit of white around her tattered fins, so I added a concentration of salt. It began to just get worse and worse, so I put in a fizz tablet by Jungle said to cure "ragged tailfin." Unfortunately I only had one tablet left, so I couldn't give her the next dosage. I figured she'd be fine, but nooooo it's only getting worse and worse!!! Now she has fin rot on her dorsal and ventral fins as well. So yesterday I treated her fins by dabbing them with hydrogen peroxide.  This morning they are even worse than before!

Should I go to the store and get some Melafix? I've heard thats good for fin rot, though I've never used it myslelf - I've always tried to treat everything at home naturallly because meds mess up my tank. Read up on Melafix, but found out it is all natural so it won't mess up my tank! What do you guys think?

I'll post pics as soon as I import them into the computor.
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Summer Time
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #189 on: May 12, 2011, 09:52:12 PM »

Wow, that's disturbing.  Punishing a fish for bad behavior.  This does not sound like a good environment for fish.  I feel sorry for all of them    Sad
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Nossie
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #190 on: May 13, 2011, 04:12:00 AM »

When Horus was harassing my babies I separated him into a bucket of tank water. Next time I put him with his buddies, he was all better Wink He's been very nice to them all ever since Smiley So... as evil as it sounds, sometimes you just have to separate the fish! :/

Anyways, the fin rot, it sounds really bad!! But I wouldn't try melafix at this stage, because it isn't helping. The thing is, it'll heal the fishes' first symptoms, but it won't kill any bacteria, in some cases, fish have died because of melafix, it had been nourishing the bacteria. So... I'd go for something stronger, actually something that will kill bacteria, something like bactopur by Sera, I've used it for everything more severe for years now, and everybody have recovered successfully Smiley Go have a look at some anti-bacterial medication. You can always take out the filter media during this time and keep it in a bucket of tank water and use some zeolithe. (since that would absorb any ammonia, just don't treat with salt while using that) You would also need to stock up on some beneficial bacteria, I guess, but I bet it'll be just fine Smiley It's strange that the hydrogen peroxide didn't work! D8
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fantailer
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #191 on: May 13, 2011, 05:19:04 AM »

I should try that with Galaxy.
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #192 on: May 13, 2011, 06:54:59 PM »

That's very true, Nossie. I personally think its more cruel to leave a bullying fish to harass the others than it is to separate them.

Thank you for your advice!  Smiley I was planning to go to the store to get some bactopur, but I decided to first see if doing a large water change (to get rid of the old med) and adding a concentration of salt, (1 tablespoon per 10 gallons) epsom salt, (1 tablespoon per 10 gallons) and baking soda (1 teaspoon per 10 gallons). I found the concentrations online. Before I added the baking soda I tested the ph to see if it wasn't over a 7.5, because baking soda causes ph to escalate. It was only at a 7, so I had nothing to worry about. And you know what, it worked! Her tail is healing very fast, so I don't think I'll need to use the meds after all! Maybe it was the peroxide working and I didn't know it.  Huh I may want to get some bactopur on hand however, incase another bout of fin rot comes back.
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Nossie
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #193 on: May 14, 2011, 02:36:27 PM »

Of course, if you won't remove/separate the bullying fish, all the others will be stressed and get sick :/ It's really not a good idea to keep fish together if they don't really "fit".

I'm so glad it helped!! Smiley If she'll heal just like that from this treatment, I'd skip the meds, really. But it's always good to have on hand, that bactopur is a really good medication Smiley
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Jopplin
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #194 on: May 14, 2011, 11:22:15 PM »

Corn kills fish!  Cry Best thing you could do is stop using corn...It is extremely harmful to the digestive tract and swim bladder...  And is a slow painful bloating death...

Age dependent, goldfish need high proteins which give them the amino acids that they can not produce on their own. Feed smaller doses several times a day... Fish eat all day, and carp graze all day. They need daily balanced diets in small portions several times every day.

Also if you have used salt as a treatment it does cause kidney damage in freshwater fish, which leads to bloating, gasping at the top, and dropsyCry

Algae, Spurlina, blood worms, brine shrimp, daphina, live plants, deshelled peas, spinach, green beans and leafy greens are great additions to your normal goldfish food.

Hope this helps..
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #195 on: May 18, 2011, 10:17:51 AM »

Yes, her tail is getting black smears around the wounded/shredded areas, which I take to be a sign of healing because my ammonia is at 0. I think this treatment has worked wonders for her...and Jade also seems to be loving life in the huge outdoor tank  Wink

Although I haven't fed my goldfish corn for a long time, I had always read in goldfish books and online that corn was fine for them to eat. I feed my fish a light breakfast, sometimes a small snack, and then a small dinner. The breakfast and snacks are usually high protien flake food, and sometimes for dinner I provide them with an alternate; usually a vegetable or bloodworms.  Smiley

I have never heard that salt causes dropsy or gasping at the top...  Undecided I only use salt as a treatment when I see signs of dropsy to begin with. Epsom salts are said to be a great treatment for that, as well as swim bladder. Non-iodized salt is also reputed to cure ich, help heal minor abrasions, and also assist in healing other illnesses. Salt also helps reduce harmful effects of nitrites in the gill region.

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Nossie
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #196 on: May 18, 2011, 01:14:29 PM »

GREAT! Smiley I'm so happy for you! Smiley

As for the salt Jopplin mentioned, I'm pretty sure I read that salt indeed causes kidney damage in fish, but only if they're exposed to it for a long time, as in: people constantly adding salt to the tank. As a treatment, it's been used since FOREVER! So I doubt it'd be bad used as such once in a while Smiley
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #197 on: May 18, 2011, 07:20:29 PM »

Thank you, I really think she's at a turning point.  Grin  Cheesy One last thing: should I keep up with the peroxide or not? I know it was helping but I don't want to stress her as much as possible.

So you're saying that the salt is damaging when people constantly keep a concentration in  the water for a long time? I never thought about it; but good to know!
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Nossie
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #198 on: May 19, 2011, 12:16:43 PM »

I think you should let her rest up Smiley Just give her extra nutritious food (I usually feed mostly live foods and vegetables to my fish if they're sick/in quarantine) and make sure that the water is as good as it can Cheesy

And yes, it isn't natural for freshwater fish to live in brackish water, for instance Wink And marine fish wouldn't make it in freshwater!
They have a different relationship to the water, and they use the salts in different ways. Needless to say that something would go wrong if they're kept in conditions they weren't designed to Smiley
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #199 on: May 19, 2011, 07:35:24 PM »

Alright, sounds good! I'll play nurse and maybe give her some earthworms and maybe some potato as a treat  Wink she loves them sooooo much.

That's very true...like puffer fish! I'll try to keep her water super perfect. When I do my water change this weekend do you think I should keep up with the salt? Or just remove it gradually?  Huh I want her to heal, but I don't want her to have prolonged exposure. It may be my imagination but it looks like she has a bit of swim bladder trouble! And I feed her peas at LEAST once a week.  Sad
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Nossie
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #200 on: May 20, 2011, 12:01:44 PM »

Depends on how long you've had the salt in the tank Smiley I usually keep fish in quarantine with a salt treatment for the first week at least, and add more for the fresh water when I change, if necessary. So at most I keep the fish "exposed" to salt for three weeks, but usually less since they most of the time get healthier already after the first week Smiley

You've probably noticed that water conditioner I keep bragging about in posts xD That EasyLife one called "fluid bio filter media". I use to add that to the quarantine tank and to the main system in case my fish show any symptoms or if they have torn fins. It's a really good thing to have in stock, so if you find it, it's worth a try Smiley
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #201 on: May 23, 2011, 07:20:00 PM »

Sounds good! After being exposed to the salt for about 2 weeks, I removed 1/2 the salt concentration and replaced it with non-salty water. Her tail is looking muuuuch better now!!!! It still has some pretty bad fraying and some white areas, but overall it has shown much improvement.  Grin Grin I don't know what her swim bladder seemed to be acting up for, but it seems to have settled down now.

I've dealt with a variety of fish problems, but fin rot is one I hope I don't encounter again.  Angry and her fins were sooo beautiful  Cry

I looked for that EasyLife filter media in our LFS, but they didn't have it. Maybe one day they'll get a shipment of it; it sounds pretty good.  Smiley
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Nossie
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #202 on: May 26, 2011, 02:38:45 PM »

It really is Smiley On a domestic online store, I saw a 5 liter canister with it xD Totally worth the money Tongue (Didn't buy it though, shipping it would be a b*tch)

Fin rot is a pretty agonizing thing if it goes too far, yes :/ I've had my fair share of it as well, not with the current goldies, but a few years ago in the community tank.
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #203 on: May 26, 2011, 05:52:19 PM »

Cool; maybe I can find a 'substitute' in the meantime for the Easylife. I saw a filter media by Topfin recently but wasn't sure if it was what I needed...I should give it a try  Smiley

Yes, it's quite the pain! I'm so glad it's at a turning point now. I think getting the bully fish out of there helped her recover faster too. She was able to take it easy and recouperate without having somebody nipping those delicate fins of hers  Cheesy
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Nossie
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #204 on: May 31, 2011, 07:44:48 AM »

Why not? Smiley It's probably more or less the same either way Wink
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Chronic swim bladder?
« Reply #205 on: June 02, 2011, 08:26:14 PM »

It was kind of neat..the other day I was at the LFS and ran into a neighbor who has a 300 gallon pond. He was purchasing some stuff to eliminate algae and it was pretty expensive. (to me anyway...spent all my money on fish  Cheesy) After ringing it up at the register, he offered to pour some in a bag for me to try out for my outdoor minipond. It really helped do what the cattails and water changes could not. With the water being exposed to sun for a number of hours a day, algae can get quite rampant. Just thought I'd share... I think it's called Algae Clean Microbacter or something like that.
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