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Author Topic: Is she dying?  (Read 1606 times)
teetsymomo
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Is she dying?
« on: December 25, 2010, 01:05:56 PM »

What are the signs of a dying goldfish (aside from the obvious, floating) My 4 1/2 inch Ryukin who has been in QT since the 19th has lost all of her color. She was a steel gray with black spots, and now she's looking very light. Her gills are pale as well. She was flashing for the past few days and I've been treating her with parasite medication, but I'm afraid they've done their job and they're killing my fish. She is no longer flashing, however now she just floats at the surface with one fin clamped and it looks like there is some red streaks in that one fin (pectoral). The water quality is the same as my other two tanks, so that's not an issue.  As I'm writing this, she just swam under the filter and the pressure of the water pushed her down. She's big and a strong swimmer, so this is just validating my theory that my new fish is dying. I really don't know what else to do for her, aside from sitting nearby, and waiting.
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Hanna
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2010, 02:05:38 PM »

Teetsy, can you please answer the questions I put on the Sticky? ( This is WHY I made it )
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Mindemae
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2010, 02:15:58 PM »

I agree!  What exactly were your water test reading?
Sometimes a goldfish can display flashing when even a trace of ammonia or nitrites are present.
OR when your pH is more acidic than alkaline and also when your nitrates are too high.
Just because they are flashing doesn't mean they have a parasite. Undecided
« Last Edit: December 25, 2010, 02:22:51 PM by Mindemae » Logged
Hanna
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2010, 02:21:26 PM »

And did you do a large waterchange before you started treating?
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teetsymomo
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2010, 02:41:59 PM »

Sorry..... here goes:

Before putting the fish in the QT Tank, I used my cycled media from an existing tank. I set the QT tank up the day that I purchased her on 10/19. there was another smaller fish with her, and he is doing wonderfully and thriving. Yes, I do my larger water changes before adding medication. 

1. How big is your tank:  Gal / litres   10 gallon

2. For how long has the tank been set up:  I set it up on the 19th, the day I purchased her

3. How many fish: 2 at first, but the other was moved to another tank and is thriving. Now this tank only has her

4. What kinf of fish: Ryukin

5. What are the water parameters:    Ammonia......... 0ppm
                                                            Nitrite..............0ppm
                                                            Nitrate.............0.5ppm
                                                            pH..........................7.0
                                                            Temp...............76 degrees Celsius / Fahrenheit

6. How often do you perform water changes: daily until I started treated with the parasite medication.

7. How big are your waterchanges:      15-25%

8. What kind of waterconditioner are you using:API Stress-coat

9. Do you add beneficial bacteria: API (Bacteria Boost)

10. Symptoms your fish is showing: Pale Gills, Loss of Appetite, Flashing (that all stopped as of today), Total loss of color (aside from some orange around her mouth), swimming at the top, gulping air, 1 clamped fin

11. Since when does your fish show these symptoms:    Three days after entering the QT tank

12. How is the normal behaviour of your fish: When we first bought her she was very skiddish when it was time to come out of the bag. While in the bag, she stayed in one corner and when we released her, she attempted to swim back into the bag. That should have been my first sign.

13. How do the other fish behave: The other fish that was with her, was very active, and acting (still is acting) normal. He has no issues.

14. Post pics of the sick fish:  I tried to attach it, but it was too large.


Please remember: the more detailed information you can give, the better help we can provide.

Don't have a test kit? Get a sample of water to your pet store ASAP and then post the numerical results.

BASIC RULE: 99% of illnesses in fish come from poor waterquality. To prevent illness make sure your fishes environment is pristine.
PLEASE COPY and paste in your new thread.  Thanks
« Last Edit: December 25, 2010, 02:44:18 PM by teetsymomo » Logged
teetsymomo
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2010, 02:52:31 PM »

Here are the pictures. She was a deep dark gray or platinum. The reddish looking marks were a dark brown and her fins were black.
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Mindemae
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2010, 03:01:02 PM »

Yeah, she looks awful...she definately has something going on.
I would at this point put aquarium salt in the tank 1 tsp per gallon of water and do you have melafix on hand?
Otherwise I would put the Kordon Fish protector in the tank, 1 tsp.  Maybe help reduce the shock.
Is she eating?
I would also start feeding an oral antibacterial medication.
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teetsymomo
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2010, 03:03:21 PM »

This is what she looked like before. Now mind you, I took this picture with my Iphone and the quality isn't all that great, but it gives you an idea of her coloration. She is not eating. I'll put Melafix in there now. I've been salting the tank.
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Hanna
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2010, 03:15:25 PM »

Ok, water quality is ok, even the tank is not fully, fully cycled yet ( very low Nitrates, but ok so far ).

You should do waterchanges WEEKLY and more than 15-25%.
50% fresh water is what fishes enjoy. Of course adding all necessary watertreatment.

Now, you say the tank is a 10 gal tank. This is the min a goldfish needs. But I notice that it is only half filled with water. You really should fill it up to the top to give her the 10gal she needs. Your fish is suffocating. The water also looks cloudy and murky.

When was your last waterchange?
What kind of filter do you have? How much does it turn per hour?
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teetsymomo
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2010, 03:31:10 PM »

the tank is not filled to the top, due to having the water being able to break the top to aid in the release of  more oxygen. It is only 1 inch lower than the black guard. I removed a bit of the water this morning. I'm trying every single thing there is.  Hanna, you say she's suffocating, how should I solve this problem? If I raise the water all the way to the top then the water won't break the surface, there-for releasing more oxygen. She's not suffocating, as she was doing the same thing, when it was filled to the top. Lets remember she started this with flashing. My take is is the result of a parasite. The water is clear, the lighting made it look bad.

Mindamae, I don't have any medicated food, but she wouldn't eat it anyway
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Hanna
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2010, 03:46:56 PM »

I see... but she really needs this amount of water... do you have an airstone to put in?

Fish being at the surface gulping air haven't got enough oxygen. This is why she's doing it. (this is why I said she's suffocating )
According to a physical feature of water, called the superficial tension of water  won't make a difference in breaking its surface not being filled up.

The airstone will do this. Also how big is your filter and how much does it turn per hour?

Other than that, yes, Aquarium salt and Melafix for now according to instructions.
Only want to add, salt doesn't evaporate. You only can lower the concentration with waterchanges.
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teetsymomo
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2010, 04:06:00 PM »

I think your explanation is clear up to the your last sentence, which seems ambiguous. Can you clarify?

I don't have an air-stone, but that seems like a great idea and will purchase one as soon as the pet stores open again after the holiday.  My filter is an Aquegon Quiet Flow and it turns the water 100 times an hour.  I'm going to put some more water in the tank. I will do anything for my new little baby.

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Nossie
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2010, 04:09:53 PM »

Frankly, pale gills (ARE YOU SURE IT'S THE GILL TISSUE AND NOT JUST THE GILL COVERS??) mean two things:
gill flukes/bacterial gill disease. And Melafix ain't going to do the trick. The best way to treat this is by injecting the fish with antibiotics preferably under the pelvic fin.

You need to start acting if you want to save this fish, get the medicated food with NO delays, and grab some antibiotics and treat the water with it quick. When something attacks the gills, there's very little you can do for your fish, sadly Sad

No filters, no amount of water and no air stones can save her unless you'll act quickly and add the correct medication.
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Mindemae
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2010, 04:11:17 PM »

In the first pictures you showed what kind of filtration/aeration is in that tank?
you need an air stone, air wand, or my favorite is an air diffuser for good oxygen/gass exchange at the surface.
This will aid the fish.  If she is gulping air at the surface and her gills are pale, that is a sign she is not getting enough oxygen which she needs. Smiley
She almost looks to me like she got burned by something, chemically, as I compare the pictures of now and before when you first got her.
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Mindemae
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2010, 04:14:22 PM »

There is no way you will be able to get the proper medication on Christmas Day.
This is why I always keep an antibiotic on hand. Sad
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Hanna
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2010, 04:20:21 PM »

No worries:

If you put a certain amount of salt in water the salt concentration levels go up as water evaporates. Salt doesn't evaporate with the water, it only crystallizes on surfaces.
This means 3 things: 1. Eventually you want to get rid of the salt you must perform larger waterchanges.
                                  2.To stock up the waterlevel while you alreaddy added a certain amount of salt to the tank volume, don't 
                                     put  more salt in
                                  3. To keep the saltconcentration during tratment and you do waterchanges, only add the amount of salt   
                                     according to the volume of fresh water you'll add

Hope this helps  Wink
« Last Edit: December 25, 2010, 04:24:05 PM by Hanna » Logged
teetsymomo
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2010, 04:24:07 PM »

due to the holiday and the situation and no air stone available today, is there possibly some rudimentary way to get more oxygen into the water as a temporary solution? Yes, it's the gill tissue. At first thought I purchased the medication leaning towards her having flukes. I don't have another filter that is not in use at this time, so I can't even put another one i. AARGH! Why do things always happen when the stores are closed or a holiday? It's supposed to snow really bad tonight and into tomorrow, so who even knows if I can get out to the store or if they'll even be open. When it snows in SC, everything closes down. I'm getting ready to place an order with That Pet Place (who overnights things, so I'll at least be able to have things on hand by Monday morning)

chemical burn....I can see that, but those areas that look like that were a brown. You can't see it in the picture.  

Thank you for clarifying Hanna. Since there is medication still in the water, I wasn't planning on changing the water until Monday (which is the scheduled day due to the Parasite medication)

Thank you everyone for all of your help.
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Hanna
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2010, 04:25:17 PM »

You sure use Aquarium Salt for Goldfish?
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Mindemae
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #18 on: December 25, 2010, 04:26:52 PM »

Ok, this is what I think....
1) you put 2 fish in an uncycled 10gallon tank.
2) Ammonia levels rose and spiked and so did nitrites.
3) Your fish started flashing and gasping for air at surface
4) you added a medication for a parasite that your fish did not have and with the ammonia or nitrite spiked, your fish was chemically burned by the combination of treatment and ammonia.
Add salt, melafix and do daily water changes, increase aeration...hopefully your fish pulls through.
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Hanna
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2010, 04:28:17 PM »

Do you have a spare pump and a hose?
If yes, I'd punch some holes into that hose on one end (close the open end) and lead that one into the tank for now
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Nossie
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #20 on: December 25, 2010, 04:40:41 PM »

Minde: Where do the pale gills come into the picture? I'd place all my money on bacterial gill disease. Which obviously IS caused by bad water quality in the uncycled tank along with stress due to moving and difference in pH + temp.

All the other symptoms are pointing towards this disease as well, flashing, gasping by the surface... the gill tissue is being destroyed and the blood vessels there can't carry the oxygen through them.

I'd say Maracyn 2 may have a chance to save this fish? Combined with some medicated food and a salt bath.
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Mindemae
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #21 on: December 25, 2010, 05:49:25 PM »

The fish is in a tank with absolutely no water movement.
Pale gills could be the result of not enough dissolved oxygen in the tank.
You can't mix chemicals with ammonia it is poisoness and deadly.
Pale gills could be the result of chemical poisoning.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2010, 06:11:22 PM by Mindemae » Logged
Mindemae
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2010, 12:41:44 PM »

I would tho, start on an antibiotic, as a precaution, as if the fish was chemically burned and lost its slime coat in the process, it will expose it to all kinds of bad bacteria.
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teetsymomo
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2010, 12:17:10 PM »

I just wanted to let you all know, that despite all of my efforts, My new Calico Ryukin, Roxy passed away sometime last night. She had a very difficult day yesterday and she was stuggling breathing. I thought for sure she was making a recovery as her fins regained their black color and she was starting to turn gray again and her gill tissue was no longer pale. We're still not sure what she was suffering from, but I'm sure since she was very skiddish when we brought her home, whatever she caught attacked her quickly. Her tankmate (who I pulled out when she showed the first signs of not feeling well) is doing wonderfully. She will be missed.
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April
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2010, 02:10:47 PM »

So sorry Teetsy  Sad R.I.P. Roxy
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Nossie
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2010, 03:33:28 PM »

Really sorry for your loss Undecided She was a beautiful fish!

Sadly though, there are some symptoms like this that show up when it's almost too late to start treating/diagnosing the illness!
And then the best way to figure out whether bacteria or water quality was the issue, is to simply perform a necroscopy. Checking the gill tissue under a microscope and looking if there's something wrong with the inside organs. Signs of strange colors on the intrails or... you know.
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Hanna
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2010, 05:28:09 PM »

Teetsy, sorry you lost her Cry RIP ROXY
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Abbiesaurus
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2010, 06:43:55 PM »

Sorry for the loss of your fish Teetsy Sad
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Mindemae
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2010, 07:09:06 PM »

rip your beautiful fish Cry
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Andrea
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Re: Is she dying?
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2010, 09:30:12 PM »

RIP Roxy, at least she didn't have to suffer for long Sad

Does anyone else think it would be a good idea to treat her tankmate? They were in the same tank for a bit and as Nossie explained normally the symptoms don't show up till it is too late. Maybe you could treat him with some anti-biotic food.
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