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Author Topic: Help! Need advice please...  (Read 1220 times)
deb@trev
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Help! Need advice please...
« on: August 04, 2010, 01:21:03 AM »

Hi everyone...Can anyone please give me any advice as to why one of my fishbaby's does this:

He 'screams' to the top of the tank nearly launching himself out of the water, then quickly goes straight to the bottom of the tank settling on his belly...Then he will repeat the whole scenario all over again..This morning I took him out of the tank into a bucket with a couple of crushed up baby peas, which he ate...He's ok at the moment but hes been doing this a lot lately...Are we going to lose him? Thank you so much...
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Hanna
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Re: Help! Need advice please...
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2010, 01:54:24 AM »

Hi deb@trev,

did you test the water, including pH?

I had once mine dashing arround like mad and I discovered that I had a pH drop in the tank.
I did waterchanges, had to do this more frequently as the tank got too small for them.

How big is your tank, and how many fishies? think you already mentioned somewhere else, but I forgot...
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Nossie
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Re: Help! Need advice please...
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2010, 03:30:23 AM »

I was just about to ask about the water quality as well, because that's usually the problem when fish start darting around like that Smiley It's usually something about the parameters, or the temperature. So you should absolutely test everything in your water asap!
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deb@trev
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Re: Help! Need advice please...
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2010, 04:04:12 AM »

Hi thanks for your answers, water is good, 170 liter tank with 5 goldfish, all other ones are fine except one?, altho he/she is fine to night
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Nossie
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Re: Help! Need advice please...
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2010, 11:39:59 AM »

Then it's easy. Your tank is overcrowded.
In a 170 liter tank you can keep at the very most 4 fish. (Rather three unless you have awesome filtration)
And I would love to see some actual results of your water tests except "water is good" because there's most likely too much nitrogen moving about in your tank, and that's what stresses your fish, and will make them sick. Especially as they grow bigger.
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Hanna
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Re: Help! Need advice please...
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2010, 05:52:47 PM »

So what are the exact results?

Ammonia  ? ppm
Nitrite       ? ppm
Nitrate      ? ppm
pH             ?

what kind of filter do you have and how strong is it?

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deb@trev
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Re: Help! Need advice please...
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2010, 09:32:19 PM »

Hubby checked the PH level in tank this morning and it is perfect...We have a friend who deals in fish and tanks etc and he has asured us that our tank isnt overcrowded...If he was here I would have just asked him what was wrong with our fish but I decided that I wanted to ask on here instead...Our fishbaby seems fine today..so I can only keep my fingers crossed...Im not going to say that it wont happen again because I simply cant...Thank you to the people who answered my call...
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Nossie
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Re: Help! Need advice please...
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2010, 05:30:14 AM »

The tank IS over crowded. An adult goldfish needs at least, at the very, very least 10 gallons of water (rather 20 if possible).
A 170 liter tank contains 44 gallons, in short, enough water for only 3-4 fish. And yes, before you say anything else, one fish does make a difference. As goldfish are incredibly messy fish, and I'm sure this friend of yours (nothing bad intended) is rather dealing with tropicals and other freshwater/marine fish, which is a completely different thing than goldfish.

So really, before it's too late and your fish grow too big, think of something to bring the stocking level down! For example giving away one of them to friends, or... just anything. Because sooner than you think, you're going to face water quality problems, which almost always leads to sick fish. I know how it works, because I've seen and tried to care for crowded tanks. It's a pain having to change the water several times a week to keep them healthy.
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Hanna
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Re: Help! Need advice please...
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2010, 12:31:29 PM »

Hi deb@trev

I'd like to help, but I can't as long as you only describe your waterquality, instead of giving exact numbers like I asked you in my 2nd reply... Sad

So please post the exact results you have got for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and pH
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deb@trev
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Re: Help! Need advice please...
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2010, 09:48:13 PM »

Ok Nossie this is what you want to know...

Freshwater Nitrate...40
PH...7.5
Freshwater ammonia...0
Phosphate test...2.5 meaning lack of maintanence and overfeeding...Oh dear and we are so particular about our fish too..And yes I'm guilty of giving my babies a little extra to eat..(cant help it they know how to 'tug' on my heartstrings) We are geting another 180 litre fishtank this weekend so I guess I will be separating them...We have an external eheim cartridge filter 2213...
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Nossie
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Re: Help! Need advice please...
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2010, 04:32:38 AM »

The nitrates are on the verge of being too high for your fish. But it's still acceptable! Although, I have a rule that I always change water on the day that the nitrates reach 40, just to be sure to keep my fish healthy (they still haven't moved into their 317l home).
And if you like feeding them, do it 3 times a day or so, but just give them a little amount so that they'll eat it quick Smiley

The filter sounds really good, though, a tad small for goldfish, but it should be just right for your tank! And I'm glad to hear that you'll be moving some of the fish after all Smiley Are you getting more goldfish for that 180 liter too?
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deb@trev
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Re: Help! Need advice please...
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2010, 01:48:35 PM »

Hi nossie...When I feed it is only small amounts and yes it is eaten very quickly...We've had a problem all night of chasing...I could hear the water splashing thru the night so I knew what was happening..They chase a lot and now I'm considering going for tropical because I cant bear to see the chasing anymore...As to your question as to whether I will get more fish for the other tank, I dont know now..I may just have to keep the troublemakers in the new tank...
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Nossie
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Re: Help! Need advice please...
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2010, 08:15:03 AM »

I think all you need to do is to start doing more frequent water changes. Test the nitrates about two days after a water change and then every day until it reaches 40, then change about half of it.

One more thing, you said the fish are chasing eachother? What varieties do you have?
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deb@trev
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Re: Help! Need advice please...
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2010, 02:25:25 PM »

Hi ya nossie....I have two goldfish, which I'm fairly sure are males, one white one with just a teeny tiny splash on its belly, (cant make out the gender of it) 2 orange and white ones..Do please excuse my ignorance nossie, I just asked for goldfish in the shop and thats what I got, and also I'm new at this...
They were so exhausted by their chasing that they werent interested in eating last night...We have got our other tank and do think they should be separated, just what ones? Any ideas?
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Hanna
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Re: Help! Need advice please...
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2010, 06:33:52 PM »

Can it be that they show spawning behaviour? Sometimes this is very exhausting for them and they just rest before eating.

But at the same time do as Nossie said: more frequent waterchanges, also add plenty of beneficial bacteria.

And I know the stock is a bit pushing, we do keep ours in a 150+ litre tank, also 5 comets and they are happy, happy, happy.
I do weekly water changes, do have an UG filter combined with an internal one. The internal filter allone turns 1200 l per hour.
And I do have an airstone about 50cm long. Every 2 weeks I siphon the gravel and every 3-4 weeks I maintain the filter. Also I do test min once a week, most times twice for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH. I feed only twice a day what they can eat in 2 minutes.
I also do have lots of live plants, they use up nitrogens and provide oxygen.

So if you may move all five into your 180 litre tank and do the same your fishies should be happy like ours. And then you can use the 170 l tank for a beautiful tropical community... WOW.. Wink

Hope this helps
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deb@trev
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Re: Help! Need advice please...
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2010, 08:35:14 PM »

Hi Hanna Smiley We have 2 180litre tanks now...Have separated the boys from the girls because of the chasing...But now the boys look lonely.. :DWe separated them because of the chasing but also, we were told that maybe there too many in our tank? I do know that hubby wants a tropical set up so I'm thinking do I put the boys back in with the girls...?So many questions!..After the chasing yesterday, this morning, they were all one big happy family..We do so love our fishbabies...And as to your spawning query, last night we noticed on one of our fish that its 'poop' (sorry) was different and it look like eggs...
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Hanna
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Re: Help! Need advice please...
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2010, 06:05:27 AM »

WOW, deb@trev... congrats, you may have babies to raise Grin were the eggs fertilized?

I can just imagine the boys feeling lonely haha.

Well 5 fishies ina 150+ and yours are 180 is a bit pushing the limits of stocking, but with the proper equipment and care it can be done. It means more frequent waterchanges and carefully monitor the water quality.  Wink
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Nossie
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Re: Help! Need advice please...
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2010, 06:19:30 AM »

BUT, it should only be as a temporary stay ;> Otherwise there will be many (or less) long years of weekly or more frequent water changes, and/or sick fish. Not good.
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darren
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Re: Help! Need advice please...
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2010, 04:57:25 AM »

The fish has a sinking swim bladder problem and is at times suffering from a lack of oxygen hence the quick dash to the surface to get some air over its gills.  Keep the tank healthy so the bottom bugs dont rot the underside of the fish as he lays on the bottom.  An air pump/air stone should stop the dolphin behaviour and keep the dissolved oxygen at the max 10ppm, the sink like a brick swim bladder issue is not treatable.  Oxygenation is very important if the other fish in the tank start spawning at night as the oxygen level will plummet.
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deb@trev
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Re: Help! Need advice please...
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2010, 01:52:03 AM »

Well guys I have put the boys back in with the girls...The look on the boys faces was to put it mildly, pitiful...   Smiley There has no more chasing at all..And Hanna I didnt fertilize the eggs...Now I have some more babies in the new tank...And they are so tiny...  2 chcocolate fantails, 2 blackmoors,and a schbunkin...The problem I'm having is that the blackmoors dont seem to be able to get to the top to eat?  The others are having no probs at all...I know in time that will change but in the meantime I am giving them spirulina discs on the advice of the local pet shop...Any more ideas would be gratefully received...Thanks guys...
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Hanna
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Re: Help! Need advice please...
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2010, 08:07:23 AM »

 Wink so if you have more babies now, the eggs were fertilized Grin
I never had fishbabies before but just what I read in Mindemaes thread about goldfish babies, I think some baby-brine-shrimp is much appreciated by those tiny little "glass-commas" LOL. Do you have a breeder box, so they won't get eaten by the big ones?

How exciting Roll Eyes Grin

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Nossie
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Re: Help! Need advice please...
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2010, 11:27:11 AM »

I've got a moor of my own, I might help Smiley When I first bought him, I was feeding him only sinking pellets because I was worried that he wouldn't find the food by the surface since moors can't see that well.
But, as soon as I introduced my white fantail to him, he started imitating her as she ate from the surface Smiley He ate a little more every day while getting used to it, and now, he's among the first fish to come get their food during feeding time Wink

So my point is, don't worry! And if you worry, feed them sinking food (peas or pellets) from time to time! It's great to have your fish used to different food sources since goldfish have a sensitive digestive system and need variety in their diet Smiley
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deb@trev
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Re: Help! Need advice please...
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2010, 01:58:29 PM »

 :)Hi Hanna and Nossie....Hanna I didnt fertilize the eggs...Dont know enough about it to do it...Nossie thank you so much for your advice...I am trying to get sinking pellets but because we dont live near a big town its a bit difficult...I will, however keep trying...We did wonder if moors were a little sight impaired and now you have answered it for us...How big do they grow? Smiley
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Hanna
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Re: Help! Need advice please...
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2010, 02:11:36 PM »

deb@trev, sure YOU didn't but your fish boy did with his milt , otherwise there wouldn't be babies... or did I miss sth and you bought new small fish? Smiley Wink
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deb@trev
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Re: Help! Need advice please...
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2010, 01:37:33 AM »

Hi Hanna...Yep bought 5 little babies, 2 chocolate fantails, 2 blackmoors and a schbunkin...I'm fairly sure the tank they are in is too big so am looking at downsizing for a while..Why, you ask? Well the blackmoors are having trouble getting to the top to eat, the others are doing fine...Wish I had a bigger house then I could have more tanks! Cheesy Just love them!
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Hanna
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Re: Help! Need advice please...
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2010, 02:25:40 AM »

 Grin LOL, I thought first when you were talking about babies, that your fishies had some, LOL.. after that spawning behaviour... hahahahaha lovely misunderstanding, hahaha

Yep, I can say the same, wish to have a bigger home, so we could have more tanks, LOL, they give us sooo much joy. Wink
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Nossie
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Re: Help! Need advice please...
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2010, 02:49:01 AM »

A moor can grow to an average of... I think 6-7 inches actually Smiley (Lol, mine is 2 inches now! xD)
One thing though, it's not very good to combine shubunkins (long body) with fantails and moors (egg shaped bodies) because the fish with long bodies are faster, so they might just overeat before the others will even reach the food! Especially since you have moors, you should be careful with that Smiley
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deb@trev
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Re: Help! Need advice please...
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2010, 08:32:06 PM »

 Smiley Hi Nossie..Yes you're right...The schbunkin is quick..We have noticd that he gets to the food before the rest of them... Smiley The moors are slowly coming to the top of the tank now which is good...
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Nossie
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Re: Help! Need advice please...
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2010, 03:14:14 AM »

So you can't be too far from getting them used to that then! Great Smiley
May I ask, what kinds of fish was it you had in that previous tank? If you had any egg shaped fish there, maybe you'd like to exchange one of those to the shubunkin? So he could spend more time with his relatives Smiley Provided that you have some comets, commons or other shubunkins there. (Fantails are fine too)
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