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Oranda
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Please Help!
« on: July 04, 2010, 06:40:03 PM »

Hello,

Our fantail started developing a bump close to his head , I asked the people at the pet shop and they told me that it could be a deformity and not to worry about it, since he acted normal, I thought maybe they were right, but yesterday I noticed that he had something red on the side, like if the skin was stretching too much that it started to open a bit, he also was at the bottom and hiding, today I think a piece came off, he is still at the bottom and hiding. I have attached  pictures of him , please help me find out what is wrong with him. Pictures 1 and 2 were taken right now, 3 and 4 were taken yesterday. You can see like a hole on the left side on picture 2. Please help!
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Hanna
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Re: Please Help!
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2010, 07:55:59 PM »

If this lump appeard suddenly it usually is a sign of infection. Most common bacteria for GF are Columnaris and Aeromonas. If it is bacterial infection the lump will resolve by rupture, so please do not squeeze or pop it.

Now, bacterial (and fungal) infections happen when the fish is stressed. Fish get stressed if the water quality is not right.

So what I recommend to do ASAP:
1. Test your water for: Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and pH  (best to have the API MasterTest Kit for Freshwater Fish and test yourself... as I never trust the results giving a water sample away for testing...

2. Do a partial waterchange (10-15%), but prepare the fresh water with conditioners like API StressZyme and API StressCoat

3. Treat with Pimafix, Melafix and a salt tonic ( Aquarium Salt )  NOT KITCHEN SALT !, according to instructions.

4. You may need to treat with antibiotics too, like medicated food.

But if the bump developed slowly it could be a benign or malign tumor. It also could be the fishes genetics... as far as I know, in this case there is not much to do about this.

Sure some more posts will come up on this matter.

Sorry I cannot help much more, I hope your fish will recover. ALL THE BEST
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Oranda
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Re: Please Help!
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2010, 08:46:43 PM »

The bump started growing, but he was acting normal, very active and eating well. We tested the water for ammonia and it read 0. I don't have a kit to test the other stuff and since is a Holiday the stores are closed today. What worries me is that pieces are coming off from this bump, and I can see dark and red sores. I have t mention that we have an oranda, per the symptoms of pine-cone looking shape we realized that he has dropsy, we went to petsmart and bought T.C. Tetracycline and isolated him, we also bought him some anti-bacteria medicated food by Jungle because we could not find the metro-med, but I will be ordering it today. The oranda is still on the bottom, no changes, he is still not eating.
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Hanna
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Re: Please Help!
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2010, 09:00:44 PM »

As you sure know, DROPSY is NOT a desease, it is a symptom of poor environmental conditions. So please get this testkit as soon as you can, For now, do a partial waterchange, use conditioner to neutralize chloramines, etc from the tap water. Use aquariumsalt according to instructions.

I post this link, you should start and read asap, so you can help your fish asap too.

Hope this helps and I keep fingers crossed for your fishies

(Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)
« Last Edit: July 04, 2010, 09:03:40 PM by Hanna » Logged
Oranda
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Re: Please Help!
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2010, 09:45:56 PM »

We did a partial water change two days ago, we added water conditioner, we always use drinking water, not tap water and we added aquarium salt. Should we do another water change today? 

By the way the people at the pet store recommended us to use Tetra Lifeguard, they said that it would not harm the fish, but it would help if there was any fungus or bacteria, we added it when we did the partial water change, and added another dose yesterday per the instructions on the box. This was because our Oranda was sitting at the bottom of the tank, before we realized he has dropsy.

Thank you so much for your response, I am reading the information on the link right now.
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Hanna
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Re: Please Help!
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2010, 10:50:36 PM »

I would do a partial waterchange every 2nd day. Thought Tetra lifeguard is for Tetras, I dunno, but get yourself some info about Pimafix and Melafix, both natural remedies.

and BTW:  should have mentioned this at the very start:  WELCOME TO THE FORUM

No worries, we're here to help and share
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Oranda
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Re: Please Help!
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2010, 11:04:20 PM »

I was so worried when I saw the hole, that all I wanted to do was get some help, sorry I omitted details. I will get info on the natural remedies. Thank you!
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Hanna
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Re: Please Help!
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2010, 01:36:43 AM »

Hey, Oranda,

PLEASE  NEVER BE SORRY,
of course you are worried, because you love your fish. I'd be worried too. And the more details you give, the better one can help.
I only thought I give you the link, because it is quicker for you to read through, also there is soooo much more info to get  Wink

I've been to the pet shop today, and I've seen the Tetra products, had a close look, yes they are fine to use, all OK.

PLEASE KEEP US UPDATED HOW FISHY GOES,   THANKS
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Nossie
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Re: Please Help!
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2010, 08:11:08 AM »

Dropsy (sometimes called "Malawi bloat") is a symptom of infections, either caused by bacteria, parasites or bad water quality. Sometimes it can have something to do with infection in the internal organs, such as kidneys, and then there isn't much you can do about it. (Just thought I'd add this.)

Either way, it looks just like a tumor to me, but it also looks like it's gradually breaking, and in this case, it could be a bacterial or viral infection. So you could try and treat it the way Hanna mentioned already Smiley But in this case, I would get some "real" medication instead of Melafix. I'd get something for bacterial infections that would actually kill the bacteria and cure the fish. Since Melafix is more of a tonic to help fish recover from smaller injuries. So get yourself some stronger anti-bacterial meds + medical salt and see how things develop. Don't forget to buy a water test kit and check the parameters often to be sure that they're flawless Smiley
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Mindemae
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Re: Please Help!
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2010, 09:05:28 AM »

Can you move the fish to a hospital tank to treat?
I would treat with an antibiotic in the water but if you put it in your tank it will kill allthe benficial bacteria too! Smiley
I also would treat with an oral medicated fish food.  Jungle's is a great product BTW.  That is what I use.  You have to only feed the medicated fish food tho, for a week, twice a day. Smiley
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Oranda
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Re: Please Help!
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2010, 12:59:56 AM »

Thank you everyone for your advise, we tested the water, the results are as follow:

PH 7.5
Nitrite  5.0
Nitrate is higher than 160
Ammonia 0.00

Our fantail seems happy again, he is eating as usual, the lump hasn't changed. Yesterday was the last dose of lifeguard (for external parasites). My husband will be doing the water change in a bit, but with the nitrate so high, we don't know how much water to change. BTW, the lifeguard was always added to the aquarium, the people at the pet store said it would not harm it.

The Oranda (the one with the dropsy) is still in another tank, today will be the last dose of tetracycline. Should we transfer him to the aquarium tomorrow? Seems like he's been eating the medicated food, although he still has the pine cone shape.
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Hanna
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Re: Please Help!
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2010, 03:34:23 AM »

My advice to do about 20% waterchange and add beneficial bacteria to your filter.
Nitrite should be 0.00ppm too. Nitrate is too high, it should be about 20.00 max. Get yourself a Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate detoxyfier from Seachem. As it will NOT remove those substances you will still have readings of it, but it will convert them into a NON TOXIC form for your fishies.
pH is brilliant.
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Hanna
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Re: Please Help!
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2010, 03:35:25 AM »

Forgot to mention too: test your water every day at this stage and perform waterchanges every 2nd day at least.
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Nossie
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Re: Please Help!
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2010, 05:42:58 PM »

Oranda: Don't move your sick fish back to the main tank until you're SURE that he's healthy. Otherwise, do as Hanna suggested, she's got pretty good things to say Wink
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Oranda
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Re: Please Help!
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2010, 11:37:14 PM »

Hi Hanna and Nossie,

We did a 25% water change last night and we put back the filter and added the aquarium salt, stress coat, etc. I did a nitrate test right now and the result was 5.0 ppm. Could it be possible that the nitrate was so high last night because we had removed the filter (for 5 days) as the indications on the lifeguard medication dictated?
The Fantail is in the same happy mood. I was hoping to move the Oranda back to the aquarium so that we could medicate the fantail in the tank where the Oranda is right now. I don't have another aquarium or hospital tank.

Hanna: My oranda still has the scales lifted, just the same as from day one, I have to say that his scales are not as lifted as some people in other forums have described, but his were and are slightly lifted. When would they return to it's normal position? It's been 5 days since he has been isolated. When do you think I should I move him back to the aquarium?

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Oranda
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Re: Please Help!
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2010, 11:41:10 PM »

I forgot to mention, the oranda had his cheek right cheek swollen, but it seems that it's getting back to normal, I would say it's already normal Smiley
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Hanna
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Re: Please Help!
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2010, 04:19:10 AM »

Hi Nossie, Hi Oranda,

Nossie, LOL, thanks, but you do have very good things to say too Wink

Oranda: This sounds to me that your little buddy is not completely cured yet. Does he behave better? Does he eat? If yes, feed him peas ( you know: frozen, thawed unsalted peas, shelled and mashed up or cut into tiny pieces.)
You know that "Dropsy" is a symptom of other things like bacterial infection. And infections are caused by stress. And stress is caused by poor waterquality. So it is a circle like one thing leads to another.

I wouldn't move him now to the other aquarium. But in the one he is now, please keep an eye on pristine waterquality. Change the water partially, if need be every day. Monitor your waterchemistry: ALL parameters: Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, pH. How is the water temp? Is it constant? Perhaps you should use the Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate detoxifier from Seachem.

Do you have some medicated food?

There is also Pimafix and Melafix available to treat fungal and bacterial infections. They are natural remedies.
If they don't work then you will need some antibiotics, the local pet shops sure have some.

Hope this helps to get your buddy back on the right track
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Hanna
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Re: Please Help!
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2010, 04:21:51 AM »

How is your fantail going, any changes with his growth?
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Nossie
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Re: Please Help!
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2010, 07:24:11 AM »

I think you shouldn't remove the filter, because you saw how the nitrates were acting. One more thing, the filter should be kept in a bucket of water when it's not in the tank, otherwise, the whole meaning of keeping the filter out of reach for medication would be lost Wink Since it's removed probably so that the beneficial bacteria that live in there would survive Smiley

Anyways, if you keep the filter in the bucket during the treatment, you should test nitrates every day, and change the water if necessary, if you'll let them build up, it could just stress your fish more than it needs to. Don't worry about the fantail, you can treat the water in his tank too, it wouldn't matter too much. Better to treat in time than to wait with it, it could be too late then.

Good luck with the fish, and keep us updated on their progress Smiley I'm glad to hear that your oranda is better Smiley
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