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Author Topic: Diagnosis help needed  (Read 1178 times)
davids0865
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Diagnosis help needed
« on: June 07, 2010, 11:36:10 AM »

Hi All from a new member.

I have an outdoor pond with 29 goldfish and shibunkins, some of the shibunkins seem to have developed a thin white halo around one or both eyes, is this a disease symptom or OK?

Thanks for your help

David
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Mindemae
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Re: Diagnosis help needed
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2010, 01:07:10 PM »

Hi David,
Can you post a picture please?
If more than one shubunkin has this I would guess either it to be bacterial infection or a parasite of some kind.
I would start treating for a bacterial infection first with either amoxicillin or gentamycin.  Look for a oral medication.
You fish store probably will have it or you can maybe get it online.  If your fish isn't better then You could start treating with a parasite medication. Such as Paracide or one with Metronidazole -or- Quinine Sulfate -or- Nitrofuracin Green in it.
Good luck. Smiley
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Nossie
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Re: Diagnosis help needed
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2010, 04:13:43 PM »

Is there any chance that the eyes are protruding? Or that the lens is cloudy?
Then it could be a variety of diseases like Pop eye, dropsy, eye flukes or even nutritional problems. But yes, post a pic or two and it could be easier to judge (:
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Hanna
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Re: Diagnosis help needed
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2010, 08:13:22 PM »

Does he swim odd or in circles?
Could be brain flukes, apparently no treatment available. Do you have snails in your pond?
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Mindemae
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Re: Diagnosis help needed
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2010, 09:28:53 PM »

When the iris around the cornea but not the cornea itself, is cloudy, it usually means a gram negative bacterial infection which are best treated with either amoxicillin or gentamycin.  I would treat with that first and see if you get any results. Smiley
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Hanna
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Re: Diagnosis help needed
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2010, 09:50:00 PM »

Hard to tell without photos, and the different sites I look up, some say no treatment, others bacterial treatment. Now I am really confused too..  Undecided
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davids0865
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Re: Diagnosis help needed
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2010, 01:05:22 AM »

Thanks all, will try to photo today and post later
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davids0865
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Re: Diagnosis help needed
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2010, 02:28:50 PM »

As promised I have got some photos to assist in the diagnosis.

The fish are home breed (by accident) and are now about 7 months old. One close inspection none have both eyes affected and only 3 or 4  (of 9)have the "halo" which may be normal??

Thanks in advance for your help.

David
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Mindemae
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Re: Diagnosis help needed
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2010, 02:33:52 PM »

It's really hard to tell from this photo.
Nice pond and nice fish btw! Smiley
The one facing with his head near the top of the water's eyes seem cloudy???  but it could be just a camera glare too.
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davids0865
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Re: Diagnosis help needed
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2010, 02:43:02 PM »

Sorry only 1 downloaded, 3 more here
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Hanna
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Re: Diagnosis help needed
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2010, 05:11:19 PM »

Hard to tell, seems that it is only at the top of the eye?
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Mindemae
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Re: Diagnosis help needed
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2010, 06:59:50 PM »

Could you pick your fish up and have someone take a picture real quick of the infected eye?  I know this sounds crazy but for a few seconds of picture taking it won't hurt the fish.
What I see from these last pictures posted is that maybe the eye in question is protruding a bit?
But I'm not even sure if that is for sure what I am seeing!
If the eye is protruding a bit which would cause the skin around the eye to show which would be white tissue, then here is what I would do:

1) Check your water chemistry.  If nitrates are really high it can cause the eyes to protrude.  You will need to do a major water change on your pond.
2) Start feeding a medicated oral antibiotic fish food.  I use a product by jungle.  It's small pellets.  Feed just that for at least a week.
Keep us updated! Smiley
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Katarine
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Re: Diagnosis help needed
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2010, 07:07:16 PM »

it LOOKS like the eye is starting to protrude, like Mindemae said
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Mindemae
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Re: Diagnosis help needed
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2010, 10:57:02 PM »

David,
I have a few questions for you.  How big is your pond?  Your fish look quite big and high nitrates could be from over crowding and waste build up.  Also, do you have any plants in your pond?  Plants are really good for helping to absorb some of the nitrates.  It's hard to tell from the pictures if there are plants growing in the pond.
Well anyway I hope you will give us an update when you can. Smiley
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davids0865
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Re: Diagnosis help needed
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2010, 01:05:00 AM »

Thanks for your input so far, I will try the pick up and snap, but I'm not to hopeful, you never know.

Info, the pond is about 2200 litres, its concrete, very old, about 2.5 meters across and only 30 cm deep. There are 4 lily's and 5/6 other plants growing. My 5 origional fish are now about 180 - 200 mm long and the 24 babies are about 80 - 100. Only the shibunkins are affected and I agree some eyes appear to protrude a little.

I will get a kit and check chemistry ASAP and will update soon.

P.S. the fish top right was all black last week and is more gold every day, amazing to watch for the first time for a newbie!!
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Mindemae
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Re: Diagnosis help needed
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2010, 06:39:34 AM »

That's a gorgeous picture.
ok so your pond is about 581 us gallons.
I'm thinking baterial infection possibly from water quality.
Is there any fountain or water running to or in the pond?  Any filtration system?
water circulation?  The oral medication would be the best thing I feel.  It would treat all the fish at the same time.
I would feed twice a day only what they will eat in about 5 minutes each time.  I use this medication and treat new fish with it as a preventative.  See if you can get any Jungle products.  You might get it at a pond supplier store instead of a regular pet store.
If your water quality checks out to be off kilter then you will still have to do a major water change.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 06:44:26 AM by Mindemae » Logged
davids0865
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Re: Diagnosis help needed
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2010, 03:09:56 PM »

Hi Mindemae,

I really want to thank you for the level of help you are giving me it is much appreciated.

Yes there is a fountain running and I have a hoselock 12000 filtation system installed.

Water test results are as follows:

Nitrates 10 - 25mg/litre
Nitrites 1 - 5mg/litre
Ph 7.2
Chlorine 0
KH 3
GH 8

All I believe well within tolerances.

If you have any further thoughts or questions................

Thanks David
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Mindemae
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Re: Diagnosis help needed
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2010, 03:29:50 PM »

Yes your water test seems fine except for the nitrites,  I would keep an eye on a spike and re-test every week or more.  Have you recently re-filled the pond?  If a pond is cycled then ammonia and nitrites should be at zero. I didn't see what the ammonia levels were. Did you test for ammonia too? Some fish are sensitive to nitrite even in the smallest amount.
 I still think then that it is a bacterial infection and should be treated orally like we discussed in an earlier post.  Snakes, frogs, bird droppings could have caused this.  It is not normal for the eyes to protrude like that.
Glad to help and glad you tested your water anyway.  It's a good thing to do. Smiley
Well please keep us posted on how things go.
You have a lovely pond and very lovely fish! Smiley
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