I have a shubunkin (worf) and he has developed clear lumps one on each gill one above his left eye and one under his chin! He is in an indoor tank bout 25 gal, with two other fish and two butterfly fish. The tank has a pump and a light, the tank I had before did not have a light and he was on his own! The tank has been running for about two months now! I haven't changed the water yet, could this be the problem? He has had this about a week now and my comet (flash) has now developed a White spot on his left eye. Have they been fighting or is it some sort of infection? If it is an infection what should I do to help him? I am really worried I only got a bigger tank for worf and the other fish to keep him company as he looked lonely! Please help me! I know to some he is just a fish but to me he is important and a member of my family!  

Okay by the sounds of it, this problem could have been caused by over stocking and/or poor water quality.

When you keep goldfish, as they are messy creatures, so you will need to be doing a partial water change on a weekly basis! So when you can I would suggest doing a water change immediately and remember to use water conditioner

Did you cycle the tank before adding the fish? And are you able to check your waters condition either by taking a sample to a pet shop (they will usually test water for free) or getting a water test kit and doing it yourself at home?
When a tank is cycling, there are harmful toxins in the water, so when kept in a small tank this is even more concentrated and can sometimes cause illness and/or death in fish.

Now with the overstocking... when you stock goldfish, depending on what type you have, depends on the stocking levels, as they differ for fancy and single tailed goldfish. As you have a Shubunkin and Comet, these guys are single tailed, they need lots of space to swim around in and can grow pretty big, usually around 10 - 12 inches. The chart below will help give you an idea of their growth.

[image]


Now I wouldn't say this chart is immensely accurate, but it helps give you the idea. As individual goldfish will have different growth, for example my common goldfish has grown an inch in about 3 months, something that the chart says should take 6

So keeping the animals growth and movement in mind, I use the stocking rules for single tailed goldfish of 40 gallons for the first fish and then 12 gallons for each additional fish. So for the two goldfish you have, you would need a 62 gallon tank.

I am also rather confused how you've got butterfly fish in there? Aren't butterfly fish salt water animals? Also what are the other two fish?

Photos would be useful, to get a better idea of what's going on. What type of white spot is it? Does it look like the fish have been sprinkled with salt, so white spots are all over the body, or is it just localised around the face?

Just in case it is Ich ( often triggered by poor water quality) , have a look at this article  (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)

Below is a comprehensive guide to diagnosis & treatment of disease
(Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)

Everything is more or less covered
Luckily, you'll easily avoid these problems in the future since your tank isn't that crowded A weekly water change of 50% or more depending on test results should do the trick!

But now since you've had the tank set up for two months without changing any water, your fish have had to swim around in their own sewage, which is bound to make them sick! Goldfish are river fish and they need fresh and clean water. So start changing it regularly!

The infections on the other hand sound like tumors or possibly blisters, caused by bad water quality or a bad diet. Salt will definitely help your fish recover from this and prevent further problems, provided that you'll start maintaining the tank properly (as discussed in this thread: (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.) ) and feeding your fish a more varied diet Most people raise their eyebrows at the idea that fish need to eat other foods than flakes and pellets, but it's true, and very important for the fish to grow and develop in a healthy way. Take a look at this thread: (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.) for some ideas on what kinds of foods to try and how to prepare it for your fish

The pump I have that came with the tank does that it creates a small waterfall but not enough to upset the goldfish! The millroaches (Roger and Klaus) both seem perfectly happy as does my other shubunkin (Daryl)! Flashes eye looks alot like a scratch and I do have a plastic plant in the tank that I think he has caught it on which as you have said has become infected so will sort that for him and I am going to remove the plant from the tank! Thank you for the advice I will try and get some pictures worf should be easy but flash well as his name suggests he is fast and doesn't stay still long! Lol! I will keep you posted how they get on!

Ahh the pump will be good, can you change the current pressure or is it set at one speed? I'm sure the hill side loaches would appreciate extra oxygen from an air stone or bubble curtain too  

I have been looking into their compatibility more since you mentioned having them (and I personally find them beautiful creatures) and I also found out that the Hillstream Loach like very clean water, so another reason why they may not be compatible with goldfish and another reason to remember to keep up with those water changes on a weekly basis
Do they have lots of hiding places or any driftwood? I've read Hillside Loaches like that  

Although I appreciate they are doing well, it would still be a good idea using the 25 gallon as a high current tank, when you get the larger aquarium for the goldfish As then you could give both fish their optimum conditions ^_^

Also keep an eye on them if you've added salt, there's conflicting information about whether adding salt affects them or not, but you'll know if their irritated I'm sure? (Maybe someone here with more experience with pleco's and such could comment on that?)

It could quite possibly be the plastic plant that was the culprit to your shubunkin, good idea to remove it! In the future use either live plants (there are some that goldfish won't eat and are very low maintenance!) or silk plants.

Goldfish are very social creatures, so I doubt he would un happy? It isn't a st*pid question at all, I've considered it as well as my current goldfish is on her own and I wonder how it will affect her if I introduce friends a few years down the line. I intend to look into it a bit more and ask around, so I'll let you know if I find anything interesting  

Thank you Nossie they are some good food ideas and if I get them I can give some to the rabbits aswell! I was worried at first with Worf and Daryl being shubunkins as I was led to believe they were meat eating but I have done some research and found that they are omnivores! So thank you again!

I got my water checked and my nitrite and ammonia were slightly high, so I have bought some treatment for the water and got some salt to put in, but I can't use the treatment until Thursday as there is some medicine in the water and it doesn't run out until Wednesday! Thanks for all the advice!

Its nice to hear about a petshop that takes tank size and cycling into consideration 

And I am glad to hear you have done the best for hillstream loaches that you can, I only knew a little about them as I considered keeping them with goldfish myself

As Nossie has already asked what treatment did you use?
Sometimes it is better to try using salt first (this won't necessarily cure everything as some bacteria strands and the such are 'immune' to salt as it were) it's always a good starting place as it doesn't affect the water quality too badly or upset the good bacteria in the tank 

Goldiegirl, if she's around, has a wonderful website with natural remedies for all kinds of illness, which can you could always try before resorting to store brought items 

As Nossie mentioned, adding carbon to your filter will clear the tank of any chemicals, therefore the medicine could be removed sooner if you wanted.
It may also be a good idea to do a water change, before adding the salt, just to make sure your water is nice and fresh!
Also when after adding the salt, when you do a water change, you will need to add the salt removed from the water change, back into the tank. So pre-dissolve the salt in some tank water before adding it in okay?

Do you have a gravel vacuum? These are excellent when it comes to cleaning debris from the tank and siphoning water at the same time 

Also if the Nitrite and Ammonia are high, it is possible that your tank is still cycling. There are a few threads around about cycling, but I could always describe it in a nutshell if you'd like!

Nice to hear you'll be getting a bigger aquarium for the fish in the future  I'm on a similar mission at the moment!

Just to make sure, a large water change is needed, especially since you have the ammonia in there, which is VERY harmful to all your fish.Take out at least 60-70% of the water and vacuum the gravel well! You may want to open the filter too and check in case there's a lot of sludge collected there.

If you've already added in salt you got from the pet shop and followed the directions, I wouldn't add anything more in just yet.

You cleaned the filter in old tank water right?

As for the salt treatment, usually you dissolve it in a cup and add it to the tank, depending on what your dealing with, depends on the concentration. Usually if your adding a lot of salt, it is best to add salt in slowly every 12 hours or so, so the fish can adjust slowly and once you have the right concentration you leave it.
Of course when you do a water change, this will remove the salt, so you will need to add it back in.

However if you've already added in salt from the pet shop, you won't need to add in more
What type of salt did you purchase? Someone here may be able to recommend a concentration amount.

Worf seems much better now! The fungus seems to have gone and the lumps on his gills have gone completely, the one on his chin is still there but is much smaller he doesnt seem to be eating much, but he hasn't been eating alot since the lump grew under his chin. Could this lump be bothering him? I am watching him nd he is eating the flakes I put in for him but when I checked before the daphia's were still in top of the water and I had to get them out, also the cucumber and spinach I gave him was still there untouched! Any suggestions as I know he won't get everything he needs to get better from just the flakes. How can I get him to eat something else? 

He the lump is even smaller today and he is eating better! Looks like he us going to be fine!  I will post some pictures of my babies as soon as I can!

Wonderful! I'm so happy for you!

Yes, goldfish change color while growing up all the time, so no need to worry Some fish can start black and end up golden, while some are red and white and turn out all white when they're older

Unless of course it looks like some strange kind of thicker mucus layer or something on the head, if not, it's just a small pigment change