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Author Topic: Hi. I'm new and could use some advice....  (Read 769 times)
CrazyGoldfishLady
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Hi. I'm new and could use some advice....
« on: November 21, 2011, 11:39:34 PM »

Hi. I am pretty new to the goldfish world... Or I should say to the educated goldfish world. I currently have two small goldfish in a 10 gallon tank that has been set up and stable for a couple months now. I have my eye on a 60 gallon cube aquarium but I could use some advice from more experienced fish owners. The plan is to have 5 or 6 fish and I know they should have 10 gallons of water per fish so 60 seems like a good size. I have no idea what type or size filter I should get and it seems like every employee at our local pet shop has a complete different recommendation on everything from size, to type, to brand.  I would truly appreciate any help you are willing to give. Thank you. 
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laurencasualty
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Re: Hi. I'm new and could use some advice....
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2011, 11:52:11 PM »

well, i'm pretty new to all this as well, but here goes (:
first of all, cube tanks aren't a good idea because they make for small surface area for the fish to get oxygen and quite simply they don't provide the length that a full grown fish needs to "strech his fins"  Tongue you should stick with the rectangular tanks for these reasons.
depending on the size of the fish, you could do 5 in 50 or 6 in 60, but only if they're small fancies, not the kind that grow large like orandas, comets, commons, shubunkins. i personally am not sure of how many gallons you would need in that case, but i know someone else on here will know lol.
as for the filter i believe that it should be able to filter 10x the gallons of the tank in an hour, so you would need a filter that can do 500-600 gallons per hour (probably a canister filter?? not really sure about that lol). specific brands, i  don't know, but again, i'm sure someone else will Smiley
do you understand cycling/the nitrogen cycle? that's very important to understand if you're setting up a new tank  Smiley there are some good threads on here about it so if you search the nitrogen cycle, cycling a tank, or something along those lines i'm sure you'd find what you need.
hope this helps, at least until someone can give you a better answer  Tongue
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 11:54:39 PM by laurencasualty » Logged
CrazyGoldfishLady
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Re: Hi. I'm new and could use some advice....
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2011, 12:08:53 AM »

Thank you. That is actually VERY helpful! The cube I was looking at was $450.00 with stand and cover... or they have a 75 gallon rectangle on sale for around $100. I'll still need all the extras but if its better for my kids then I'm all for a rectangle. Any idea on how it would work to do dual smaller filters... One on each end? This is what the store suggested it I get a rectangle instead of a cube.   
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laurencasualty
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Re: Hi. I'm new and could use some advice....
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2011, 12:46:57 AM »

hmm, i think it would make a lot more sense to get one larger filter (almost positive you would need a canister filter for 75 gal) that's designed for the job rather than 2 or more smaller ones (i'm assuming you mean hang-on types) that aren't really equipped to handle the load. ya know?
haha and glad i can help Smiley and thank all the people on here that i learned this stuff from  Tongue i'm sure they'll show up to this thread soon
« Last Edit: November 22, 2011, 12:51:45 AM by laurencasualty » Logged
Nossie
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Re: Hi. I'm new and could use some advice....
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2011, 04:32:46 AM »

Putting one filter on each end of the tank wouldn't be a very good idea, you realize that the currents would make a mess and the filters would have trouble catching any dirt that way. You should preferably have both outtakes and intakes on the same side if you decide on that, but getting a big external filter is definitely to recommend before the small internal filters.
Goldfish need lots of bio filtration and a small filter can't provide that.
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CrazyGoldfishLady
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Re: Hi. I'm new and could use some advice....
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2011, 06:45:22 AM »

This might sound silly but would it be a better idea to work my way up slowly? I want to make sure that my fish have enough room but I'm very intimidated but jumping from a 10 gallon to a 50 or 75. I'm just afraid that I'll mess something up and lose my little guys and that's just not an option. 
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Dragonii
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Re: Hi. I'm new and could use some advice....
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2011, 11:21:18 AM »

I an currently building a 60 gallon cube set up myself.
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I will be using an Aquatop CF-500UV canister. It does 525 gph and is all you would need for that tank.
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I use one on my 150 gallon cichlid tank and couldn't be happier.

It would work on a 75 pretty well too.

As for placement of the intake/outtake... on a tank that is rectangular it is best to locate the intake and return on one end of the tank. Water flows to the other end, hits the wall and returns in a cyclonic motion. If you have two filters like I do on my 150 (6 feet from end to end) it is fine to have one filter on each end of the tank, but you should have one with the return at the top and the other with the return more towards the bottom. this causes a circular flow through the tank and eliminates dead spots.
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Hope that helps.

If you do use a 60 gallon cube I would recommend only the fancy (fat bodied) variety... they don't need as much room to swim as they are slow. With a cube, just use one big canister and drop the in/out on one side of the back wall, you will be fine.
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Dragonii
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Re: Hi. I'm new and could use some advice....
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2011, 11:30:07 AM »

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This might sound silly but would it be a better idea to work my way up slowly? I want to make sure that my fish have enough room but I'm very intimidated but jumping from a 10 gallon to a 50 or 75. I'm just afraid that I'll mess something up and lose my little guys and that's just not an option. 

Don't be intimidated, bigger the tank the easier it is to keep. The more water volume you have the more forgiving it is.
Tanks like 55 and 75 gallons are more common than cubes and therefore much cheaper. The 75 is a perfect tank. The dimension ratio is the best that you will find. It provides enough length for most fish that like to swim, enough space from front to back for them to turn around and has the best surface area to volume ratio that you will find. Only other tank that comes close is the 40 gallon breeder tank, but it is smaller.

Definitely go canister filter, they are more efficient, less expensive in the long run as they are usually stocked with reusable media, quiet, more customizable and run for years.
I have used many different brands, models, design and configurations over the years and my current favorite is the Aquatop that I linked.
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CrazyGoldfishLady
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Re: Hi. I'm new and could use some advice....
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2011, 11:52:38 AM »

Thank you so much for your advice. I am thinking I'll probably go with the 75. I may have to get rid of my couch but I want my fish to live long and healthy lives. I'm going to the store today to look at tanks again and I feel like I have a much better grasp on what I'll need now thanks to your advice.
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Nossie
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Re: Hi. I'm new and could use some advice....
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2011, 11:55:56 AM »

I jumped from 8 gallons to 80, and didn't have any problems, it's the same as having a small tank, just easier to keep clean Smiley (and you'll notice that the fish will be a lot more comfortable)

I definitely agree with Dragonii on this, if you want the goldfish, don't be afraid to upgrade, and it's far better to get something big and proper rather than many small tanks.
Besides, a 75 gallon isn't that big.. Wink
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Dragonii
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Re: Hi. I'm new and could use some advice....
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2011, 12:16:38 PM »

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Besides, a 75 gallon isn't that big.. Wink

And once you get addicted it starts to look even smaller. lol
I bought my 150 thinking "this is the biggest tank that I have ever owned and I will never need anything bigger"... yeah right. I wish I had a bigger tank already.
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Nossie
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Re: Hi. I'm new and could use some advice....
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2011, 01:58:28 PM »

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Besides, a 75 gallon isn't that big.. Wink

And once you get addicted it starts to look even smaller. lol
I bought my 150 thinking "this is the biggest tank that I have ever owned and I will never need anything bigger"... yeah right. I wish I had a bigger tank already.

I've been there, my friend, I've been there... Grin
I do wish I could find something along the lines of a 100-150 gallon tank somewhere (and probably after that I'll still want something bigger!)
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Skwishee
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Re: Hi. I'm new and could use some advice....
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2011, 02:19:33 PM »

Gosh it seem's everyone's covered everything here! Good job guys  Grin

Good luck with the tank CrazyGoldfishLady!! What goldfish are you thinking of getting for your tank?  Smiley
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CrazyGoldfishLady
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Re: Hi. I'm new and could use some advice....
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2011, 02:51:28 PM »

Well, I have Rufus, a telescope eye, and Tanda, an orange panda oranda. Rufie was a birthday present from my co-workers and Tanda was just so cute I had to get her. As far as future fish I'd really like a mixed family they are all just so cute.
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Nossie
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Re: Hi. I'm new and could use some advice....
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2011, 03:30:07 PM »

Moors generally don't do too well being with too many faster types (like fantails, orandas, pearl scales...) since they have pretty poor eyesight.

Also, an oranda would have to be black an white to be called "panda" Smiley In general it's only panda moors that have this coloration.
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CrazyGoldfishLady
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Re: Hi. I'm new and could use some advice....
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2011, 04:43:20 PM »

My bad. The store had it marked as an "orange panda" probably to avoid confusion. She's adorable, whatever she is. And Rufus for some reason seems to see and move pretty well. I've been reading about the breeds and some of their specific issues and was surprised to read that because he navigates really well and swims circles around Tanda.
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Nossie
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Re: Hi. I'm new and could use some advice....
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2011, 01:15:21 PM »

Of course he navigates well, goldfish use a special organ on the side of their body, you can see it as an almost dotted line along the upper back of the fish. They feel movements in the water through that.
But they do need their eyes to find food, and moors are at a clear disadvantage in this case.
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CrazyGoldfishLady
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Re: Hi. I'm new and could use some advice....
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2011, 10:02:21 PM »

Ok. Obviously you know more about fish than I do. That is why I asked for help. I didn't realize that this website was designed only for know it alls. I will delete my profile and go somewhere where people are helpful and not belittling.
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laurencasualty
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Re: Hi. I'm new and could use some advice....
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2011, 12:01:49 AM »

Aww hey, I really don't think nossie realizes that she comes across that way. Don't leave, and don't be offended. I'm sure she's not trying to be rude, that's just the way she talks. But I love her anyway b/c she's really helpful and she is a nice person. I'm sure she didn't mean to upset you.. I felt that way at first when she phrased stuff like that to me but I realized that's just how she is; everybody has their quirks and we gotta do our best to work with them and get along. Truce guys, ok?
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Skwishee
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Re: Hi. I'm new and could use some advice....
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2011, 07:50:30 AM »

I'm with Lauren on this one, I hope you change your mind and decide to stick around GoldfishLady, it would be lovely to hear how your goldfish are getting on.
I certainly don't consider this place a website for know it all's and I am sorry to hear that's the way you feel.
I'm always learning new things every day about goldfish and I have such a lot to still learn! It's why I like it here, because there are alot of people like myself who are new to the fish keeping hobby and we are all learning together Smiley
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Nossie
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Re: Hi. I'm new and could use some advice....
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2011, 10:33:45 AM »

Oh, I didn't at all mean to sound rude! D: (I bet it's partly because of the lack of emoticons on that one.)
I love answering questions and helping as much as I can, I really don't want to sound like I look down on you or anything!! It's really just fun when there's someone that comes here to ask for help :/
Honestly, I was on this other forum at one point, where people REALLY knew their stuff, and whenever I had some n00b questions, including "MY FISH GOT DROPSY, OMG WHAT DO I DO?!" they were answering in a very non-personal kind of way, just getting down to business and not really caring at all about the fact that I was worried to death D:

However, I have once heard this comment from a person from the States, saying that I might sound rude since I'm so to the point, (it was something about her artwork.) I said that something simply didn't "look very good", and she figured I was so rude because I'm Finnish... we're pretty honest and straightforward here and sort of... don't get offended if someone shares opinions.

In an case, GoldfishLady, don't get all upset, I really didn't mean to sound demeaning to you! I just thought I'd fill in a little on how goldfishes' anatomy sort of works, which is good to know when deciding which varieties to keep together. It's not like it's impossible for these two fish to live in the same tank, but if you'd decide to add more orandas or fantails, the moor would most likely not get his/her share of food :/
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Hi. I'm new and could use some advice....
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2011, 02:31:47 PM »

That's the thing with communicating via typing...things can get misunderstood so easily depding on how the other person takes it! Sometimes people can come across as rude when they are only trying to state the facts bluntly. Heaven knows that's happend to me many times...either myself misunderstanding others or me being the one misunderstood. Sometimes it is easier to talk to others face-to-face to see how they mean something when they say it, but hey we gotta work with what we have until technology advances.  Cheesy
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Dragonii
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Re: Hi. I'm new and could use some advice....
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2011, 08:59:00 PM »

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Ok. Obviously you know more about fish than I do. That is why I asked for help. I didn't realize that this website was designed only for know it alls. I will delete my profile and go somewhere where people are helpful and not belittling.

Crazygoldfishlady, the site is not designed only for "know it alls", it is designed for people with a similar interest to share information. It is for those that don't know to ask questions and those that do know to provide said information. Some know more than others and they freely share thier knowledge to help educate those that don't.
Nossie is only trying to help, not belittle you.
With that in mind, please take this as me providing information, not belittling you. I know the things that I know due to many years of working in aquarium stores and many more years of keeping aquatic life in my home, I would not expect someone new to the hobby to know these things, but because I care and think that you may find it interesting once you know I will share my knowledge.
Nossie is correct in saying that fish have a special organ to help them navigate, it is called the lateral line, or acoustico-lateralis. It is a clollection of neuromasts made up of hair cells in a jelly like substance and  electroreceptors that can detect minute vibrations and electical impulses. It is what gives fish that almost "eyes in the back of thier head" sinsation. It allows them to feel/detect what is around them, even when they sleep. Some fish even use it to detect things like insects falling into the water to help them hunt for food. It helps schooling fish keep themselves in a school. Ever see those huge schools of fish that they call "bait balls"? The lateral line is what they use to know when the school moves left, right, up, down etc. It gives them that almost magical sense of what the fish next to them is doing.
In some fish it is more delicate, such as certain salt water species and the common freshwater Oscar. They can develope what is called lateral line disease or erosion, also known as "hole in the head". There is much debate over what actually causes it, some believe that it is caused by an irritation from microscopic carbon particles in the water, lack of certain nutrients, parasites, bacteria or stress. In some marine fish like tangs or angels it is a common practice to ground the aquarium to remove the electical field that is created by the pumps and heaters that we use in the water. This electric field is too weak to effect most fish, but in fish like the pallete tang the lateral line is extremely sensitive and it is believed that this electrical field can stress the fish by causing the lateral line to constantly "feel" it's presence.  Kind of like the stress that we would feel if we constantly felt like we had to look over our shoulder because  someone was always watching us.

Don't take that as being "a know it all", it just happens to be something that I do know about. Why? Because I have kept some of those fish with the extremely sensitive lateral lines, and when you come home to find your $100 purple tang looking like this...
[image]

Instead of this...
[image]


you educate yourself on it very quickly. Sad


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Skwishee
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Re: Hi. I'm new and could use some advice....
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2011, 12:53:08 PM »

Thats great info Dragonii  Grin I didn't know fish had different sensitivites on their lateral line, it's almost like how some of us have sensitive skin and others don't!

So sorry to hear about the tang though Sad Did it get better?
I saw some beautiful little Regal tangs today, if only I had a salt water tank! XD
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Dragonii
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Re: Hi. I'm new and could use some advice....
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2011, 03:10:59 PM »

Skwishee, that was many years ago. That tank is long gone.
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Nossie
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Re: Hi. I'm new and could use some advice....
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2011, 04:03:44 PM »

Very lovely info, Dragonii Smiley I honestly didn't know the name of the line in English, so it was nice with an update!

Sorry to hear about the tang though, such a gorgeous fish! Sad
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