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Author Topic: new fish in quarantine  (Read 1936 times)
Summer Time
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new fish in quarantine
« on: October 16, 2010, 11:15:24 AM »

Hi everyone.  I have been reading some of your posts every day, but not posting myself.

I have 2 new small comet goldfish in quarantine.  They are separately quarantined because one is for my daughter's tank, and one is for mine.  It has been 2 weeks, and one is doing exceptionally well, and I will move this one into the normal tank tomorrow.  This fish was by far the healthiest fish at the pet store.

The other fish, about 10 days after bringing it home, got sick, with what looks like small off-white bumps on the tail.  (I don't think it's ich, because I have seen ich, which is bright white.)  This fish was not the healthiest fish at the pet store, it swam around and ate great, but the dorsal fin went down sometimes, but I said I wanted to bring it home anyway hoping to give it a good healthy home.  It also looked like he was missing a scale on his side.  I treated with Melafix for the first 3 days (like it says on the bottle for new fish).

He did fine for the first few days, then after about 10 days (like mentioned above) started to get lethargic.  When I got him, he had 2 small off-white bumps like the first picture in the post titled 'white bumps', and now has them all over the tail.  I have been treating him like instructed in the post 'white bumps' (with Melafix and Pimiafix, and also anti-bacterial medicated food).  He is swimming around much more normally now, so excited when he sees me, but the dorsal fin is still down and the bumps are still there all over the tail, looks like it could be a fungus?

Am I medicating this fish properly?  

Also, how long do I need to keep him in quarantine after this clears up?

Thanks

« Last Edit: October 16, 2010, 11:18:54 AM by Summer Time » Logged
Nossie
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Re: new fish in quarantin
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2010, 11:22:32 AM »

Be very, VERY careful with medication. Don't ever treat a fish until you know for sure what's wrong with it. If the white spots look like fungus, you should treat angainst fungus ONLY, unless you use salt. You should always quarantine a fish with a salt solution in the tank, as that will kill off any possible parasites, which is the greatest threat. Salt will also work well on the fishes' recovery in general as it'll relief the osmotic pressure on the gills and body. You would've made it easier for yourself to quarantine all new fish together, as they will feel safer with one another, and it'll be easier to figure out what's wrong.

If I was you, I'd test the water by now, and add salt to the tank. Always when quarantining, you should have medication in the tank from the start, but only the kind of medication that means, salt or Melafix + Pimafix, since these are natural remedies and safer to use by the home aquarist.
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Summer Time
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Re: new fish in quarantine
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2010, 11:31:27 AM »

Thanks, I will add salt.

This fish is orange, with a white/clear tail.  The off-white bumps on his tail are actually an orange or brownish color now.  And the tail also looks torn now, like someone took scissors and cut it in strips, in 2-3 places.
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Summer Time
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Re: new fish in quarantine - help
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2010, 01:22:25 PM »

This fish was swimming very actively, and about an hour ago, I added salt according to the directions on the box, and the fish has stopped swimming and is now just hanging from the top of the water.  Is this an acclimation period, or should I change the water back to having less of a salt content??
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Summer Time
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Re: new fish in quarantine
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2010, 01:48:32 PM »

Hi.  He looked so sad that I couldn't wait for an answer.  I just did a 50% water change, and he's active again.  Not sure if he would have acclimated ok or not, but I was too worried to wait and see.   Smiley

So now there is about 1/2 the recommended dosage of salt in his water.

With the few fails and successes that I've had in the past few months, I thought I was getting pretty good at goldfish care and how to handle problems, but I guess I still have lots to learn. 

Any other advice on this sickness would be very much appreciated.

Thanks!!
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Summer Time
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Re: new fish in quarantine
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2010, 04:42:54 PM »

I don't think these spots (or whatever) are just on his tail, they might be all over his body.  Hard to see, but I can see them if I look from above.
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Nossie
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Re: new fish in quarantine
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2010, 06:19:57 PM »

If you see white spots on him, you should definitely treat with salt! But be sure to test the water too! Especially during a quarantine, anything but flawless water quality will have a negative effect on a weak fish.
Either way, did you dissolve the salt in water from the tank BEFORE adding it to the tank itself? Otherwise, the salt would burn the fish. It's also pretty good to add the salt in a few doses, about a third every 12 hours should be nice Smiley
But it does take a little while for the fish to get used to the salt concentration, so leave him alone for a couple of hours after.

Be sure to feed him nutritious food! Like blood worms, they're rich in protein and all kinds of good things, and the fish love them Smiley Get them frozen, freeze-dried or packed in gel.
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Summer Time
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Re: new fish in quarantine
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2010, 06:49:22 PM »

His water quality has been perfect ever since I got him home (2 weeks ago); same readings as my regular tank.

There is still some salt in the water, and Pimafix and Melafix.  When I added the salt, I just put the salt in and it sank to the bottom and dissolved pretty fast.  Maybe that was my problem?  He stayed away from it.

He is eating the anti-bacterial food, and the container says to feed him nothing else.  So I guess I should wait to feed the dried blood worms?

Does this normally take a while to cure?  This is the 3rd day I've been medicating him and the spots aren't going away.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2010, 06:53:03 PM by Summer Time » Logged
Hanna
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Re: new fish in quarantine
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2010, 07:36:55 PM »

As goldfish are feshwater fish the using of salt is very delicate, too. Never pour salt into the tank, disolve it first in conditioned water before adding it. Also it is better to add less for starters than too much.
Those spots may take up to a week or a bit longer to go away.
Keep on top of the waterquality and do a waterchange whenever necessary. Don't add too much salt as it does not evaporate.
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Andrea
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Re: new fish in quarantine
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2010, 09:25:14 PM »

You should have dissolved the salt first to the new water when doing a water change and even when you do that make sure it is all dissolved. I just had a few problems with a new fish of mine which was being quarantined, so I was using salt and I noticed that I really had to mix the water around to make sure the salt was dissolved before adding the water to the tank. Don't treat the whole tank again also, just add the right amount to water changes Smiley

If the water is perfect, I don't think water changes are going to help. Just leave him for the time being, I was given the same advice that too much love can be harmful. Keep an eye on the water quality and the bumps, also feed him alot of nutritious food as Nossie said. I noticed that really helped my fish, she went crazy for frozen blood worms. Oh but I would follow the advice for the anti-bacterial food I guess. I don't know much about them but I think they are more for internal parasites like worms so I'm not sure if they will help here.

It is only the 3rd day, so just wait a few more days and the white bumps should gradually start to fade. Like chicken pox, they start off bad but get worse and worse until they get better Smiley So no more salt as it will start to work.
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Nossie
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Re: new fish in quarantine
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2010, 04:02:34 AM »

If it's white spot, or ich, you should keep up the salt solution for two weeks, and you have to stop feeding the anti-bacterial food. Get some food against parasites instead, as they are lodged in the skin of the fish and protected against the salt.
OR, you could just start feeding blood worms and the fish might get rid of them himself Smiley
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Summer Time
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Re: new fish in quarantine
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2010, 10:19:51 AM »

Not much change from yesterday.  He slept on the bottom all night, but gets up and swims around when I'm there, and ate some frozen brine shrimp.  I will have go to the store to get some bloodworms for later.

I was hoping to see some improvement by now.  I wonder if I should have been treating for parasites all along.  I was using the advice under the post 'white spot' because his problem looked like the picture there.

I will get some anti-parasite medicated food today as well.

And I'll keep using salt.  The salt will kills parasites, right?

I wonder if I should stop adding Melafix and Pimafix?  The bottles say to treat for 7 days or more, but if it's not helping...

It would probably be bad for me to switch to a medication for parasites now, wouldn't it?  I don't want to over-medicate him.

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Summer Time
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Re: new fish in quarantine
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2010, 12:25:59 PM »

I think I have identified what this disease is, because what were white spots, now look like gold dust has been sprinkled on the tail, and maybe some on the body.  I think it may be 'gold dust disease', which seems to also be called 'velvet'.

I have a bottle of medicine Maracide, which treats velvet, but says it "treats the fish, not the water".  And it says NOT to use it in conjunction with any other parasitic treatments.

Or I can buy a product called CopperSafe, which says it treats "in the free-swimming stage of the parasite".  It says these parasites fall off the fish and multiply.

My first course of action should probably be to treat the fish, then the water?

Since he's in quarantine already, maybe I should start over with all fresh water, then add the Maracide.  But would this switch in medication bother him?  I don't want to kill him with all this medication.

btw - my daughter's new fish has been added to her regular tank today, and they are happily hanging around together. Smiley   He has been an only fish for 5 years! 
« Last Edit: October 17, 2010, 12:28:41 PM by Summer Time » Logged
Summer Time
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Re: new fish in quarantine
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2010, 01:36:25 PM »

Here are pictures of my sick fish.  You can see the problem most easily on the tail.  It's kind of dirty looking, whereas his normal tail color is white/clear.

Also notice about 3 missing or damaged scales, I think?  On his side.  This is how his scales were when I got him.

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Hanna
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Re: new fish in quarantine
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2010, 06:01:48 PM »

I notice his clamped finns, but the white dots don't look like ich to me but rather like a fungal or bacterial infection. If they are like a golden colour it may be velvet desease. I am always careful using the shot-gun-method-medication, only if Melafis/Pimafix won't work.
I'd use Melafix AND Pimafix according to bottle instructions, also raise the water temp about 1-2 degrees but not more.
Yes there are missing scales.

What kind of salt did you use and how much did you dose?
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Summer Time
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Re: new fish in quarantine
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2010, 06:38:00 PM »

Thank you!  I think I may be messing up.

I'm so concerned for him that I may be doing too much now.

When I read up on velvet, they said its a parasite.  So I did 100% water change, rinsed the tank with very hot water, and put in the Maracide to treat for velvet.

He laid still for a few hours and I was worried, but is now swimming around.

I'm hoping no one yells at me for this change in treatment.  There is no salt in there. Should I add some?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2010, 07:38:52 PM by Summer Time » Logged
Mindemae
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Re: new fish in quarantine
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2010, 07:04:54 PM »

Hi,
I would add salt to the fish's tank.  1 tbs per 5 gallons of water.  You can use salt with medications and it will provide some electrolites for the fish.  You fish won't be cured miraculously overnite.  I know you want him better right now and having a sick fish is stressful but you have to be patient and calm when treating.  I just had a sick fish for 2 weeks I've been treating.
If your fish has velvet heating the water with a heater might help.  You can heat the tank water to 78 degrees.
Velvet is a parasite and should be treated with salt and medication for velvet! Rid Ich + is a great product and I have had much success with it.  It has Malachite greeen in it.  Treat for 3 days then do a water change and repeat the treatment.
I would ditch the antibiotic fish food for now and feed really top of the line high protein high vitamins, frozen bloodworms and fish food by Aqueon, New life Spectrum or Omega One!
Hope he gets on the mend soon! Smiley
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Summer Time
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Re: new fish in quarantine
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2010, 07:43:01 PM »

I'm going to stop making quick decisions on treatment.

The Maracide has malachite green also, so hopefully I am medicating properly now.  I'll gradually add salt, like recommended earlier, 1/3 at a time.

He's sleeping now, and is NOT on the bottom of the tank.  Yea   Smiley

Thanks for helping  Smiley
« Last Edit: October 17, 2010, 08:50:14 PM by Summer Time » Logged
Mindemae
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Re: new fish in quarantine
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2010, 09:41:31 PM »

Don't feel too bad about not spotting the velvet right away.  It is hard to see since it bleds in with the normal color of the goldfish quite well. Smiley
Glad he is doing a bit better please give us an update when you can!
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Hanna
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Re: new fish in quarantine
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2010, 12:17:10 AM »

What kind of salt are you using?
Don't use normal salt, use Aquarium salt especially made for this purpose. There is "Goldfish Tonic Salt" available.

Just wanna make sure Wink

And please keep us updated. Thanks
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Nossie
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Re: new fish in quarantine
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2010, 04:33:29 AM »

Salt should kill any freshwater parasites Smiley There are some kinds that are more resistant and will need heavier medication to kill (Like Argulus, fish lice, they look like big green blobs on the fish), but for future reference, you can remember that salt will work for sure! Against ich and velvet at least Wink

Now stay calm and treat your fish responsibly, feed him good nutritious food, and he's sure to recover! Smiley
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Summer Time
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Re: new fish in quarantine
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2010, 08:54:37 AM »

Definite signs of improvement today.   Cheesy  Swimming actively, eating fine.  I fed him freeze dried blood worms today.

He is very happy again.  he looks absolutely awful, still has all the spots and a really frayed tail.  But I am happy he is finally improving.

Thanks so much to all of you, for suggesting that it could be a parasite. This prompted me to read further and really study his symptoms.

I tried to take pictures this morning, but he was so active they kept coming out blurry.  Smiley  I will try again tonight so you can see the improvement.

Salt - I have a box of aquarium salt. I didn't put it in yet because I don't want to change the water and lose the medication that's in there.  Maybe I can take some water out, mix in salt, and pour it back in.




« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 09:08:05 AM by Summer Time » Logged
Mindemae
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Re: new fish in quarantine
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2010, 10:44:27 AM »

Well that is good to hear he is on the mend! Smiley
Yeah put the salt in a little water from the tank or just pour the aquarium salt right in.
I just pour the salt in and it dissolves in the aquarium water quite well especally with a filter running. Wink
Well good luck !  Can't wait to see pictures! Cheesy
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Summer Time
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Re: new fish in quarantine
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2010, 07:32:02 PM »

Hi.  He still looks awful, and resting on the bottom.  But he does get up and look happy when I say 'hi' to him.  I fed him some more bloodworms tonight.  I can see the spots on his side more easily today.  I hope he's just resting on the bottom because he's tired, and using his energy to get better.

I want to put more medicine in, but I can't because the instructions say to only add it on days 1, 3, and 5.  Guess I have to be patient.

He has been hanging by the surface when he eats, but I don't know if that's normal at this point, or if I need to worry about that now.  Maybe it's just because he's so tired.  Is that why you asked me to add salt, to help him with breathing, etc.?

I don't know what to expect.  I just want him to get better, but as you all have said, it will take time.  I just don't want to lose him, especially if there's something I can do to help.

Sometimes he flashes thru the water, probably trying to get these things off of him.  The tank has no decorations.

I'm going to put some salt in now.  (Afraid to touch the water  Undecided)  

Everything I have read about Velvet says that salt won't help, but I'll put it in anyway since you are all recommending it.  They also said to keep the tank in a dark place, but the only dark place I have is in the closet, and that's where the kitty box is, so instead I put a box nearby to block some light.

A question about the missing scales - does this mean he will always be getting sick, because the bad bugs can get to him?

One more thing that I should not have done:  I used to have this quarantine tank right next to my regular tank, so they could see each other.  But I read that this Velvet can spread very easily, so I moved them apart.

I don't have a heater, because I thought goldfish didn't need one??

« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 07:45:02 PM by Summer Time » Logged
Summer Time
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Re: new fish in quarantine
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2010, 08:10:43 PM »

Still can't get a good picture because he is such a HAM for the camera and won't sit still  Smiley

Here are two I took this morning.  They turned out pretty good because I forgot to turn off the flash  Embarrassed  but I usually don't use a flash.  He looks sad in these pictures, but he is so much happier today.

Maybe if someone is trying to look for spots on their fish, a flashlight would help to see them better.

« Last Edit: November 20, 2010, 05:34:12 PM by Summer Time » Logged
Mindemae
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Re: new fish in quarantine
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2010, 08:31:11 PM »

Yeah, he does look awful. Sad
I don't want to get your hopes up and say he'll be alright.  It depends on how strong he is.
The aquarium salt won't hurt.  All the books I've read on velvet say to raise the water temp.  This speeds up the life cycle of the parasite and helps the fish get rid of them faster.
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Nossie
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Re: new fish in quarantine
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2010, 03:21:25 AM »

Velvet is very contageous, yes, but it won't contaminate fish in a separate tank unless you actually take water from the affected system and pour into the main tank d: So just wash your hands thoroughly between maintaining each tank when you come in contact with the contaminated water Smiley

Missing scales is something very common in most goldfish, they could've fallen off when the fish was shipped or handled or it might've come off while displaying spawning behavior, and either way, they're not a big problem at all, because of the slime coat that goldfish have on their skin. The scales should grow back on their own as well Smiley

Not to mention that if you will keep the water quality as close to perfect as you can, the fish won't need to be stressed Smiley In other words, they won't get sick Smiley
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Summer Time
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Re: new fish in quarantine
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2010, 08:43:31 AM »

He seems about the same today. Rests on the bottom until he sees me.  Ate some crisps. The flash on my camera really shows the spots, he doesn't look that bad to the naked eye. Maybe I will pick up a heater to speed up the process. I have put some salt in too.

If he make it thru this, will he have permanent organ damage?  Or any permanent damage?
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Nossie
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Re: new fish in quarantine
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2010, 01:46:33 PM »

He shouldn't have any. Most fish that get ill only get "deformed" let's say, if they've had severe infections with fin rot. Where the bony rays of the fins have been devoured by the infection, they'll never grow back even if the rest of the fins will heal.
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Summer Time
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Re: new fish in quarantine
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2010, 10:04:30 PM »

Still treating with Maracide and I have put in some salt.  I called Mardel (the company who makes Maracide) and they said, if needed, that I can do another 5-day treatment after this one is complete.  They said on day 6 to do a 25% water change, then start over with the instructions as if it was day 1.

Sometimes he just sits on the bottom, and I have to stare at him to see if he's still breathing, it's so slight.  Then sometimes he's breathing heavier.

Is his breathing a sign?  Do you know if barely breathing, or heavier breathing is better?

Is the purpose of using aquarium salt to aid in breathing?

I wish I could take a class in this.  There's so much to learn.  Maybe you guys can start teaching, along with your book-writing  Smiley

Thanks

« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 10:06:51 PM by Summer Time » Logged
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