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Author Topic: Newbie w a question  (Read 936 times)
cheri_alexander
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Newbie w a question
« on: July 26, 2011, 12:21:29 PM »

Hi I'm Cheri. I have only had goldfish for about a year. I have three 2" fantails in 30gallons, two 1/2 " fantails and a 1" Black Moor in 10gallons, and three 4-5" Orandas in 50gallons. I would very much like to combine them in a large custom tank. Can these fish live together? Two of the fantails are very athletic and everyone else is about the same.
What size tank would be appropriate? I have read that it's 2 gallons for every inch of fish...but I'm unsure how big they will all grow. I would like it to be very spacious and have plenty of room for another addition. Also should the new tank have more floor space or more depth?
Thanks!
 Cheri
Mom to Rowan,Elder,Aspen,Ash,Willow,Blackthorn,Hazel,Maple and Holly
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lreiden
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Re: Newbie w a question
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2011, 12:28:59 PM »

Hi Cheri,
I am a newbie also...rule of thumb is 10gallons per fish...i am not sure how much it goes up from there but I would think that since you have 9 fish you'd need a 90 gallon tank?  That sounds gigantic so im not sure if I'm correct on that one.  We'd love to see some pictures of your fish!!
good luck
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Newbie w a question
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2011, 12:33:34 PM »

Ireiden is right...your fish are all fancy goldfish and should co-exist quite nicely in a 90 gallon tank. The black moor is smaller than the orandas, so I would make sure s/he could compete fairly well, which most can, if they learn where the food source comes from and isn't picked on too much for being sight impaired. And a tank that is longer and less deep is preferable to a tank that is not as long but higher.  Wink
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cheri_alexander
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Re: Newbie w a question
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2011, 12:51:39 PM »

Thank you both on your quick response. I had randomly guessed at 100gallons so I'm glad I was accurate. After the tank is built/found and cycled I had planned on moving everyone up one tank to allow the little ones to grow. So my second question: Is there such a thing as too big a tank? The three orandas would be the only inhabitants for some time.
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Nossie
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Re: Newbie w a question
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2011, 01:41:48 AM »

Too big tank? Never. Always the bigger the better! (Btw, I have an 80 gallon tank, doesn't feel that big once the goldies are in there)
Now, be careful with the moors, I've been less lucky keeping those with my fantails and orandas :/ So keep a close eye on them, are they getting food? Are they acting healthy? Do they know where the food is?
If any of these aren't right, you should definitely move the moors to a separate tank. They're a bit slower than the other varieties because of their bad sight, so it might be safer to keep them on their own together to make sure they all get their share!

If you want, there's nothing at all stopping you from putting at least the 2" fantails and the bigger orandas together right away Smiley Of course, considering the cycle, if you're going to cycle completely without the fish, you need to be careful and add maybe 2 fish a week to the tank to be sure to avoid an ammonia spike.

Lovely idea, really, please keep us updated and post pictures! Cheesy
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Nicole
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Re: Newbie w a question
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2011, 08:56:19 AM »

You don't have this problem now, but for the future, remember that egg-shaped goldfish (fantails, moors, orandas, lionheads, etc.) can't live with the "long" goldfish, like shubunkins, comets, or commons.  The latter swim much faster and will gobble up all the food.
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Newbie w a question
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2011, 05:45:04 PM »

Yes, some moors have better eyesight than others depending on the size/shape of their eyes. If yours is "smart" it should probably make it, but be wary of putting a tiny, blind-as-a-bat moor in with larger, "smarter" fish. Great idea, and btw goldies LOVE their room...like giving them an indoor pond.  Cheesy
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cheri_alexander
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Re: Newbie w a question
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2011, 06:13:53 PM »

Nossie- Thanks for your great response. I have noticed that the Black Moor (Blackthorn) never eats until the food sinks to the bottom, he never grazes on vegtables and has a hard time with frozen daphnia. Is this normal? I have taken to soaking his flakes and freeze dried krill so he can pick them up off the bottom. Can they eat algae waffers meant for plecos? Or do you think he gets enough veggies just from the flakes?
Nicole- Thanks for the tip. I prefer egg-shaped so it shouldn't be a problem but thats good to know.
GoldieGirl-Only two of my fantails seem terribly bright. Maybe they should be seperate...I usually watch to make sure everyone eats enough, although the Black Moor wont feed from my hand.
Cheri

Rowan
Aspen
Elder - Orandas
Ash
Willow
Maple
Holly
Hazel-Fantails
Blackthorn- Black Moor
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Nossie
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Re: Newbie w a question
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2011, 02:04:07 AM »

No problem Smiley
About the moor, it depends on how long you've had him! Could be that he's just not figured out from where the food actually comes yet, but I was feeding my moor with sinking pellets for a long time Smiley Then I introduced one of the fantails to his quarantine tank, and then he started following her to the food. But if you already have fish he could follow in the tank, I'm not sure really.
Feeding sinking food is only safer for goldfish, really! Cheesy Do you feed them shelled peas? Maybe you could cut some smaller pieces that he could eat from the bottom? Smiley

Before I had my pleco, I used to toss in a pellet ever once in a while, watching the fish go nuts about it Wink So, algae based foods are really good, indeed. You could always try and see if he'll get anything out of it Smiley But I'd keep trying with the peas, or maybe chopped spinach? The more variety, the better! Buy some different kinds of pellets for staple food too, it'll only make them happy Smiley I currently feed mine with 6 different kinds of pellets xD I don't want to feed the same food during one or even two days! Get something with extra protein too, very good for growing goldfish Smiley I feed mine a load of blood worms and tubifex along with that to make sure they get as much nutrition as needed c:

I don't know about the "bright" fantails xD In my experience, they're just a lot more greedy than the moors, and the orandas is another step above the fantails... Wink By the looks of it, the smallest fish I have in my tank is roughly 1.5" and she's the first fish in the feeding corner... being a little oranda. But as long as you watch the moor and make sure he gets enough food and that he grows well, everything should be okay Smiley
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cheri_alexander
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Re: Newbie w a question
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2011, 08:01:38 PM »

Thanks Nossie! My larger orandas can eat shelled peas but the moor is only about an inch long. I grow green beans though and I open them and feed the smaller fish the beans/peas/seeds (whatever they are) which they really seem to like. Everyone else loves broccoli, romaine, duckweed, zucchini etc but maybe he simply hasnt found the lettuce clip yet, I've had him about two months and he is certainly growing so I'm not too worried about it now. I currently offer flakes once a day, something to graze on as well as a "protein meal" of daphnia, krill or bloodworms. I will add pellets to the menu though. Thanks for the advice.
Cheri
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lreiden
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Re: Newbie w a question
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2011, 09:15:35 AM »

I have two young orandas, one that is pretty small..I take frozen peas, defrost 2 of them and then squeeze them out of their shells and make them a little mushy...the bigger one is able to eat the peas without me "squishing" it a little, but the smaller one isnt... they love their peas though, zucchini is next on the menu (once I get to the store:))

So, a question about the lettuce clip...I havent tried this yet because I assumed my fish are too small...do you just take a piece of lettuce and clip it to the side of the tank?  Are they able to eat it?  does the lettuce become soft enough eventually for them to get pieces off? 

thanks Smiley
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Newbie w a question
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2011, 10:03:45 AM »

Depending on the size of the fish, I notice they can have difficulties eating certain foods. My baby fish under 1 inch long struggle with consuming chewier foods such as carrots and some fruit. The larger fish have no trouble wolfing these down..I guess it just depends. To answer your question, Ireiden, it is suggested to steam the lettuce for a while before feeding to fish; steaming does not cause the food to loose nutrients but makes it softer and able to sink well. I steam my lettuce for about 20 minutes on a low simmer...then you can tear off strips of it and drop it into the tank, or clip it as one peice to the side of the tank and watch your fish go crazy!
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Nossie
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Re: Newbie w a question
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2011, 02:26:22 AM »

cheri_alexander: If you'd cut the peas into really small pieces (about the size of your moor's mouth) it should be fine Smiley I did that the first year or so for my smaller fish Smiley

Ireiden: Some people suggest blanching the lettuce a little before feeding it to the fish as well, you could try both steaming and blanching if you want, why not? Cheesy
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fantailer
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Re: Newbie w a question
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2011, 05:20:37 AM »

Nossie you can also try reducing the skinned pea insides to mush.
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cheri_alexander
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Re: Newbie w a question
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2011, 06:26:34 PM »

Oh duh...I don't know why I didn't think to cut them. When I read to feed peas I imagined big fish eating whole peas. LOL. They are happily eating broccoli now. I let a piece sink and Blackthorn actually nibbled it a bit. Maybe he just prefers to eat off the ground since his eyes turn downwards.
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Nossie
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Re: Newbie w a question
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2011, 02:52:56 AM »

I'm personally not fond of mushing them much.... >> Thing is, it gets messy easier with all the little pea particles floating about.

It could be that vegetables are a bit hard for him and he deals better with softer foods, like flakes for now Smiley
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cheri_alexander
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Re: Newbie w a question
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2011, 06:34:07 PM »

Well today I bought some "sinking granules". They are tiny and Blackthorn, Ash and Willow went crazy for them at first. But now I realize they are just spitting them back out. Are they too big, or too hard? All the larger fish ate them easily. Now I'm going to have to vacuum even though I just did yesterday. Lol!
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Nossie
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Re: Newbie w a question
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2011, 11:21:24 AM »

It happens that the fish need to get used to the food Smiley But goldfish are generally eating anything that could be eaten.
You may want to try and soak the pellets for about 10 minutes or so before feeding so they'll soften up! That might work Smiley
Or you could feed half new food and half "normal" food so slowly let them get used to it.
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Summer Time
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Re: Newbie w a question
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2011, 09:57:20 PM »

My fish are about 2 1/2" and when I feed pellets or granules, I crush them, then swirl them around in a small cup of tank water for about 5 seconds, then pour them in.  The pieces sink and my fish love them and eat them with no problem.

Before I started crushing the pellets, I fed them to a really small goldfish, under 1",and  my fish immediately gobbled up 3 in a row, then died.  I think they expanded inside.  So I am extra careful now.
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kate88
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Re: Newbie w a question
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2011, 03:11:51 PM »

hi i have had goldfish for as long as i can remember with no problems but i went and got 4 for my son. 1 has died but there is one who likes to hide under the bridge and is not as active as the other 2 that are left. could this fish be upset because its buddy has died?? i was thinking it was that but it has been 3 days and he hasnt eaten for 2 days.the fish will come out every so often but then is right back hiding.
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kate88
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Re: Newbie w a question
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2011, 03:34:48 PM »

i also think that one fish is sick with something i have never seen before on any of my fish in the past.
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cheri_alexander
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Re: Newbie w a question
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2011, 07:39:27 PM »

Well first of all you didn't give any information in your post. How many gallons is your tank? How big are the fish? How often/ how much water do you change? When did you last test and what were the parameters? Even without anything to go on I can guess your problem. Your tank was probably to small to begin with, you overloaded by adding too many fish at once. You probably didn't quarrantine the new guys. I am only guessing here but it could be ammonia poisoning, lack of oxygen or simply poor water quality. Poor water quality can lead to any number of diseases. If you describe the "sick" fish in detail we would have more to go on. Also, so you know, there is a whole thread about illness where you can find help but be sure to include details.
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kate88
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Re: Newbie w a question
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2011, 04:57:10 PM »

my tank is a 5 gallon corner tank and the fish are small about an inch  i have been changing a quarter to half the water the past few days just to keep the water clean and a little warm till i get a light for the tank on the account mine burnt out.i do have a filter i bought one that i have had in the past that works like a charm.i have not tested the water yet ...i still have to go back to the pet store to get that done.i bought the fish together all at once from the same tank at the store.also i did have to clean the tank once the day i got them due to my son putting cat food and bread in the tank so i moved it higher up and out of reach.well all i know is the fish is white and it has white hard dots all over its back fin and now on its body and one of the other fish has the dots too. but i noticed later in the day when i got them that they had these dots. i will be going to the store friday is the earlyest i can go but now i know to look better at the fish before buying ... i also had my mother in law pick them out she has never had fish before.
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cheri_alexander
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Re: Newbie w a question
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2011, 06:54:20 PM »

Well there you go. Even a small fish (and by small I mean 1/2 " or so) needs 10 gallons EACH. Return the fish while you still can and if you want your original fish to grow and thrive, buy a real tank. There is really no way to help you if you try to keep multiple fish in a space way too small for one.
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Nossie
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Re: Newbie w a question
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2011, 09:20:46 AM »

kate88: You've kept goldfish for as long as you can remember and... you've kept them in 5 gallon tanks? I don't want to offend you, but this is pretty serious abuse of these poor fish. How long have any of your goldfish lived even? The oldest goldfish alive was 45 years old, which says something if you have baby goldfish that die after a year or two.

You really have to buy a larger tank, your fish have ich, a parasite and the bad water quality in the tiny space will most likely kill them even if you'd try to treat now, in fact they'd die especially if you'd try to treat them in that tank.
So, for 3 fish, you need a 30-40 gallon tank. The absolute minimum is a 20 gallon for one goldfish and you could keep two there, goldfish are very social and friendly creatures and love playing with each other. A 30 gallon for two fish would be the absolute ideal though.

The 5 gallon isn't big enough for any fish, maybe some snails or a betta? Please don't leave the fish to die just because you can't/don't want to buy a big enough tank. We'd love to help you if you'd want to try making these little ones thrive Smiley
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