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Author Topic: Hyper goldfish?  (Read 5187 times)
Skwishee
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #120 on: October 29, 2011, 06:50:41 AM »

Okay a little update....

Lucky is fine, the veins in her tail still remain at 3, with a new red line (around 2mm big) appearing on her dorsal spike. That's the only change and its tiny!
I have noticed a red line under her mouth when she eats, but I feel this is possibly normal. It's only visible when she's chomping away, so I'm not too worried.

The people on the other forum I've inquired in (The goldfish and aquarium board) are pretty much as clueless as I am about the situation and have pretty much done the same as you guys and myself, merely suggesting possibilities as there is no clear indicator as to what caused this and what it actually is.
All I know is that something is possibly wrong, but I don't know what!
(Infact the thread is here if you want to view it (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.) )

They've recommended that I get some medication now, that way if something goes awry I'll have an immediate response and not have to wait 2 weeks for something to be delivered. Their port of call is Maracyn, the one thing I don't think is even sold in the UK Undecided
Also do you guys have any recommended websites for purchasing fish products, that I could check out?

Oh also Nossie is this the stuff you mentioned previously?
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Do the products have long shelf lives?

So in conclusion, I buy some medication and play the waiting game....  She's had the veins in her tail now for 15 days with no real change... So I'm at some what of a loss here XD
« Last Edit: October 29, 2011, 06:53:42 AM by Skwishee » Logged
Nossie
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #121 on: October 30, 2011, 05:02:55 AM »

Yes, those are the two meds I use Smiley You can treat everything with them! Parasites, fungus, bacterial infections... Smiley And the salt won't interfere with the bio filtration in your tank, and it's enough to use in case Lucky would get fungus or parasites Smiley

The salt won't expire, and the Bactopur can be kept for a few years if I remember right. I've used it sometime last fall or so on the community tank and it worked wonders even after we had kept it for a long time by then c:
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Skwishee
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #122 on: October 30, 2011, 06:55:18 AM »

Ah thanks Nossie.

The people on the other forum are still recommending Maracyn, so I think I'll research into both products.
But really the SERA is so much easier to get because it's sat there on Amazon, so I'm tempted to get it and save me the bother of chasing this Maracyn down. But I'll look into both products regardless!

I also just discovered that a Seachem products have Kanamycin in them! The chemical that I mentioned before, but couldn't find!
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Lucky hasn't shown any changes, although I may have mentioned previously, but she sometimes goes a litttle erratic and swims up into the filter current, well for some reason this behaviour is seldom and I'm not sure why? I have a suspicion this behaviour is her way of telling me that she's hungry though Wink I shall test this theory and let you know.....
« Last Edit: October 30, 2011, 07:08:29 AM by Skwishee » Logged
Nossie
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #123 on: October 30, 2011, 05:03:27 PM »

Honestly, fish can act a little strange every once in a while when kept in a smaller tank.
When I had my goldfish in the 8 and 10 gallon tank they never seemed very happy... at one point I had Sammy in the 8 gallon while treating her for fungus and she didn't want to swim around at all. I put her back in the large tank as soon as the fungus had disappeared, and then she was (an still is) her usual, happy self Smiley So it seems that some just are a little uncomfortable.
However, do keep an eye on it, as planned Smiley
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Skwishee
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #124 on: October 31, 2011, 06:21:45 AM »

Yeah I know what you mean Nossie, it's why I mostly treat her odd behaviour as normal!
As there's been a slight hiccup in water parameters.
Ammonia is 0.25ppm for some odd reason (even though I did a water change/added stress zyme only yesterday  Undecided)

I realised something was up, because Lucky was swimming to the surface to get air an awful lot (so maybe I can tell the difference between her being odd and something being wrong after all XD) so I figure its the ammonia and possibly something got into the water I left settling yesterday, maybe some body spray got in to it by accident?
I'm doing a water change in about 10 minutes anyway, had some water prepared an hour ago and left it to settle. But I feel ( and hope) this is completely un related to everything else i.e. her tail XD

I'm still not sure what medicine to buy, as I'm being told different things by different people, it's slightly confusing Huh
I might end up getting one or two different things that can cover a range of possibilities? Other than this I don't really know what else to do!

Well it's the end of October now, so only 2 more months until the bigger tank is here....
Oh also happy halloween Wink
« Last Edit: October 31, 2011, 07:27:53 AM by Skwishee » Logged
Nossie
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #125 on: October 31, 2011, 02:43:55 PM »

The best thing to do is to do your own research on the products and decide for yourself which one sounds more suitable Smiley

Happy Halloween to you too! Smiley
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Skwishee
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #126 on: October 31, 2011, 02:55:10 PM »

Thanks Nossie, it's all a bit over whelming with so many products available!

I think my main concern is to get something that can deal with bacterial and/or fin rot and doesn't affect the bacteria in the tank as I don't have a quarantine tank. So keep that in mind and maybe start over, looking at products.

I'm a little concerned about Lucky, so want to get something soon as she's been gasping at the surface an awful lot today, I've already done a water change to try and help  Undecided Monitoring her now, keeping track of how often she goes up to 'gasp' as it were.
Do you find goldfish gasp at the surface often or is this generally a bad thing like I think it might be?
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Nossie
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #127 on: November 01, 2011, 06:31:09 AM »

Fin rot is a bacterial infection, but I personally don't know any anti-bacterial medicines that don't interfere with the biological filtration...

When using these meds, some people remove the filter media from the filter and replace it with zeolithe (don't use salt when using zeolithe!!) They then keep the filter media in an aerated bucket of tank water to keep the beneficial bacteria safe.
This way, the ammonia won't spike during treatment, and the mini-cycle afterward won't be too bad Smiley
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Skwishee
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #128 on: November 01, 2011, 08:22:01 AM »

Yeah... I'm thinking Kanaplex is the best way to go at the moment, because I can feed it to her (soak pellets/frozen food in the stuff using this binding ingredient called 'focus' and can always add 'garlic guard' to increase the likelihood of her eating it).

In fact from what I've read it doesn't adversely affect the bacteria if you add it directly to the tank either.....
The product itself deals with fungal and bacterial infections. So I guess that would do the job! I just have to find a place where I can get all 3 products.... I imagine the Garlic Guard won't be hard to find, but the other two might be.... Nossie do you know any good online websites to purchase things from?

Then knowing when to medicate and when not to medicate would be the next thing!

Plus if there's ever a parasite problem, I can just use rock salt and if that doesn't work, then go about buying an appropriate treatment.

I know they say to have a medicine cabinet (in fact there's a list on GAB of 9 different 'essential' medicines) but how often do you need them? I might look into getting a few things to have 'on hand' later, but I don't imagine fish get sick that often when they're looked after properly, so buying something, not using it and having it expire after 6 months or a year seems a bit of a waste Undecided
« Last Edit: November 01, 2011, 08:33:52 AM by Skwishee » Logged
Nossie
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #129 on: November 02, 2011, 01:18:11 PM »

I always buy my things from domestic online shops, much easier with the payment and shipping that way, so unfortunately I don't know where to turn in your case Undecided You could always try and google the products, they'll usually be listed in shops that carry them and then you can just look around for the best one Smiley

When you see the dorsal fin go down, you know there's something wrong, if she's sitting around with it clamped along her body. Otherwise, she'll be fine as long as the water is Grin

Some people advice you to keep a medicine stock, but I'm one of the few who say, try to avoid anything that has to do with medication. Too many people take this advice too literally and imagine that just dumping some overly strong medicine will make the fish feel better, which is just making the pathogens stronger and the fish weaker.
I agree with you to just buy what you need when you need it! All medications have an expiration date after all, and since your fish might actually be happy and healthy for the entire period that the medicine is usable, it would be a terrible waste of money! D:
I just keep epsom salt, sea/aquarium salt, medicated food and the leftovers of the anti-bacterial medicine, all of this are things I've simply bought when I needed them, and as always: Prevention proves to be better than the cure.
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Skwishee
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #130 on: November 02, 2011, 02:45:18 PM »

Well I managed to find them all on e-bay and amazon, so could just get them from there?
What I find a slight annoyance is how the Kanaplex and Focus on e-bay are cheap, but the postage is about the same price as the product?! XD

I don't understand why they aren't sold here? And yet I assume it's okay to have them brought online and shipped here?

I suppose I could always find a local vet and ask, but I'm not sure what kind of thing they'd charge and how much experience they'd have with fish Undecided Or find another medication that I can easily get in Europe/UK.

Infact I found a list of various medications here (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)

The difference between what the US has compared to Europe and the UK, is just silly....

*Sigh* I need to get some more water conditioner, so may very well check out Pets At Home and The Range and see what products they carry there when I go to get some. (I will be sure not to ask a member of staff for help! As they know nothing XD).

Thanks so much for your continuing support, I really appreciate it, just need to get my head around things!
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 03:16:07 PM by Skwishee » Logged
Nossie
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #131 on: November 03, 2011, 06:24:50 AM »

It's simply a question of availability, some products may not sell, so they choose to keep more "simple" things in shop.
I mean, it's much easier for a newbie to get a bottle that shows pictures of the disease rather than figuring out what the difference is between fungus-, parasite- and bacterial infections.

...you gotta hate shipping prices sometimes... xD
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Skwishee
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #132 on: November 03, 2011, 09:22:53 AM »

Yeah, I've come across lots of items that claim to cure lots of things at once, really, how that even begins to work I don't know >.>

Lucky is fine, although I noticed this morning she is still swimming to the surface to 'gasp' Undecided
So this is new behaviour first noticed on Monday, I don't remember her going up to the surface this often, but then again it isn't like she's hanging around the top of the tank all day, so I don't know what to make of it. Whether I should be worried or not?
I monitored her for over an hour about this the other night and it was rather strange for the first 39 minutes or so I counted her swimming to the top about 21 times, but then in the following 40 minutes or so after that, I only saw her go up twice Huh
It's very weird...

I've read that it could mean something is bothering/damaging her gills, it could point towards bacterial infection, but still doesn't give me much of a hint on what the heck is going on XD

Another medicine I'm looking into is Medigold, as it already contains Ormetoprim, Sulfadimethoxine, Kanamycin and Oxolinic Acid.
So it has the kanamycin as well and would possibly work out cheaper as I'd only need to buy the medigold.
Instead of having to buy 4 products (pellets, focus, kanaplex and garlic guard) to do the same thing....
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 09:40:57 AM by Skwishee » Logged
Nossie
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #133 on: November 03, 2011, 12:32:01 PM »

It could be as simple as oxygen deprivation, you know Wink Is the surface moving well in the tank?
When fish are poisoned by nitrite, they would also show the visible veins and have problems breathing because the blood would slowly lose the ability to carry oxygen. But if you already tested the water etc...
Then of course, she might just not be comfortable in such a small tank anymore, how big was it again? There are so many people on the forum lately with too many goldies in too small tanks xD

I'm pretty sure that everything will be okay once you'll set up your bigger tank this Christmas Smiley
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Skwishee
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #134 on: November 04, 2011, 05:20:25 AM »

Well its been 22 days now since the red veins were first noticed  Undecided
I almost feel like, if this was something life threatening, I'd know by now surely?

Someone on the other forum has suggested it might be parasites like flukes.... hmm....
As for the oxygen, no it's not that, do you remember when I thought there was a leak in the tank? The cause of it was the surface movement. There's a lot of movement in that little tank to the point that I now have to keep a towel on one side to soak up the water that's jumping through the grates.
Nitrites have 0ppm for ages now so I don't think it's that either...

So I'm thinking of getting something for bacteria and then something for parasites. It's been recommended to use this stuff called Prazi on new fish in case they have flukes, so may look for that, as I can use it for the new fish anyway, so it wouldn't be a total waste. I'll see what the shops have here as well.

Haha yeah there a few of us with small tanks about XD Lucky's tank is 21 litres.
I'm beginning to think the same thing you know, just get her through till Christmas...
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Skwishee
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #135 on: November 05, 2011, 11:12:37 AM »

Well I went to the Aquarium shop today to ask things and they suggested checking my water, so I thought may as well, I do have a test kit here but second opinions can't hurt, it came out perfect besides a little bit of Nitrates.

I explained to them what's been going on and the guy there suggested it was possibly something with her swim bladder, but I explained her swimming's fine, so not that and they also said that changing my water twice a week is too much and it's not that the water quality is bad, but more that the water is changing too often and stressing her. Which is interesting, I've not thought of changing the water being an issue but I imagine he has a point.
I know this week I changed the water Monday when I first noticed her gasping and then as usual on Wednesday and would be doing it as usual tomorrow. So they've told me to leave the water and if something like fin rot or other wise is going on, I should know in a few days.

He suggested changing the water once every 2 - 3 weeks, but I'm not sure on that one. After the test with my nitrates to see if they tank would be okay at christmas, I think they'd be through the roof if I left it for 2 weeks. Maybe just change the water once a week? I've been doing two large water changes a week, so maybe I should stop doing that?

On the other forum they've only recommended getting Praziquantel to treat for flukes as this could be the reason behind gasping but to otherwise not do anything. In one article on the Goldfish and Aquarium board, they recommend using prazi on new fish that are being quarantined as well, to get rid of any possible flukes/worms, so I suppose the product wouldn't be a waste if I'll be using it next year when the quarantining the new fish.

They did also mention that it could be the food causing the gasping and have suggested making my own gel food (which could prove an interesting adventure!).

So I'm still none-the-wiser with what's going on here, but wanted to share what I've learned today!
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Nossie
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #136 on: November 06, 2011, 09:36:59 AM »

Maybe you should just add some salt? that would be a lot better than using some harsh anti-bacterial medications, and the salt would kill most parasites Smiley

A while ago I told you that you might be overdoing the tank cleaning. It's good to change it often, that way the water quality won't change too much, but of course, there's always a limit Wink This guy you're talking to obviously hasn't had goldfish, and they really, really need to have a lot more water changed at least once a week than tropical fish do, and many people don't realize that. Especially since Lucky is in such a small tank, she wouldn't feel very good having it changed once a month.
So do it once a week, but take 50% or a bit more. Why are you changing it often if the water quality is okay anyway?

I highly doubt it has anything to do with the food, I've never even heard of anything like that Huh At most fancy goldfish can start floating if they eat certain kinds of pellets or flakes, but rather not gasp by the surface.
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Skwishee
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #137 on: November 06, 2011, 11:00:52 AM »

Thanks Nossie, the guy I spoke to is one of the workers in the aquarium shop, they have goldfish in the shop, but only a few tanks the majority is other fish (although they had the tiniest baby orandas when I went in, so cute!). I understood where he was coming from and he was very nice, said if anything shows up on Lucky to just pop back and they can help me out.

And I'm going to do a water change today (I fed Lucky some freeze dried tubifex worms yesterday so need to clean the gravel) and then not do one till next Sunday. In all honesty I'm not sure why I got it in my head to do it twice a week, I think I may have gotten the impression it would be a good thing as the tank is so small.
But as we already know from my experiment that the nitrates will be fine, then yes, once a week should do.

I too am a bit un sure about the food, one or two people on the other forum reported that their fish gasp and bottom sit after being fed commercial foods and have ruled out any diseases, so believe it is the food?
Interestingly enough I did notice that Lucky gasped at the surface more after feeding (I watched her for about 20 minutes before feeding and she only went up once or twice) her gasping behaviour since has been quite seldom. I've only seen her go up a few times in the past 3 hours or so, she's spent most of the day foraging in the gravel and picking at the plant.

But I don't think that explains why the behaviour has only started this week, I feel if the food was bothering her I'd have known earlier because she's been on the same diet. And it still leaves the veins in her tail as a some what mystery, but I imagine leaving the tank alone and like the guy in my aquarium shop said, I'll see if there's anything in the next few days.

I am looking to improve her diet, I saw some frozen food recently by Gamma that come in blister packs so you only need to break off one cube at a time and I might pick some up when I'm next out. As well as possibly trying to make my own gel food as I can't find any locally.

I also picked up some freeze dried tubifex which I'll use occasionally (someone on the forum suggested to bin it, but that would be a waste, as long as I soak it before hand it should be fine?). Then of course I have the bloodworms in jelly mentioned before.

I think I'll go look in the post about food with what pellets everyone uses and I'll try to get some soon, but at the moment flakes and what I've been doing will have to suffice, as I can't find pellets in the shop, everywhere it's just flakes! Maybe get some garlic guard to soak the pellets in before feeding?

Thank you Nossie, I too was considering salt, I know I have some rock salt around, I think I'll give Lucky some time before taking action though, see what the situation is in a week! Thanks so much, it's been great to have such wonderful advice Smiley
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Nossie
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #138 on: November 07, 2011, 05:27:28 AM »

At one point I had 6 goldfish in a 10 gallon (AM I HAPPY THEY GOT TO STRETCH THEIR FINS?!!), and then the nitrates went from 20 (post-water change) to 40 in three days. I changed 75% every three days and they stayed healthy, but it was hard work, and I was really concerned about the fish D: So I understand why you'd think that twice a week would be good, it sometimes is, but in larger systems where the water quality won't change much Smiley

One of my favorite things to feed goldfish are tubifex cubes! They can be broken off into just suitable pieces for the larger fish, and then the little ones can grab the smaller pieces that drift off Wink You just need to figure out a way to feed her the right amount so it won't spread out too much before she eats it. I usually count one or two mouth-sized pieces for each fish when I feed them this.

Did you try looking for some goldfish food online? Here's one online shop I found in UK: (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)
...and the food section Wink There are plenty of pelleted foods here to choose from! They didn't seem to sell any live foods though.
Another one: (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.) this one seems to have the Tetra gel foods I feed my fish Smiley
Here's something that lists all kinds of things: (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)

Hope those links there will help! Cheesy Just curious, did you buy your fish flakes at a grocery store or a pet store? What brand are they? At least here, they sell crap fish food at grocery stores, it clouds the water badly and isn't nutritious at all... :/
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Skwishee
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #139 on: November 08, 2011, 03:16:56 AM »

Aww yay I'm glad to hear someone else feeds tubifex cubes! (I was a bit annoyed at being told to bin them XD)
But yes, I cut one in half and put it in and it just completely dispersed all over the place! I imagine feeding will be easier when I have more goldfish, as the cubes I have you can stick to the side of the tank, but one cube is too big for one goldfish XD

I got the flakes I use from the pet section of The Range, they have some of the same stuff that Pets at Home sell, only sometimes they have it slightly cheaper. I've been using Tetra Goldfish Flakes Smiley
I have seen some suspicious looking flakes in food shops too!

Thanks so much for the links, I'll be sure to check them out later! (Must be off to do things soon!)
I also got some courgette (I finally realised what zuchinni was!) for Lucky to try out, but she doesn't seem to like it as much as brocolli  Wink
I put some in the tank for her yesterday but she's not eaten much of it, although I think that may be because she got a little confused yesterday though bless her. My partner forgot to switch on the bedroom light, so when I got home it was dark (only around 7/8pm or so, but it is winter now) so I turned on the light and she was asleep under the plant, I'd woken her up XD Poor thing was slightly confused, so I'm not sure she realised it was feeding time >.< Although she did look really cute sat under the plant, I suppose I know where she sleeps now!
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Nossie
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #140 on: November 08, 2011, 03:56:30 AM »

I use to soak mine in a little jar, Usually split them a lot smaller than half, for all my goldfish I use to give at most two cubes, so for one goldfish a half cube is pretty much Wink If you have some one-use chopsticks, you can use them in the little jar when soaking the tubifex and try squeezing the water out of them with the thick end. This way you'll squeeze the air out of them and they won't dissolve until Lucky will start pulling them Wink

Hah! I had exactly the same problem!! xD Once I read this text that goldfish would like eating "courgette" and I had no idea what it was until I checked a dictionary... xD
Did you boil the squash first though? My goldfish seem to like eating it more when it's softer Smiley I bring the water to a boil, turn down the heat and let it boil until the pieces sink Smiley
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Skwishee
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #141 on: November 08, 2011, 09:35:40 AM »

Yeah I cooked it the same way I do the peas and carrots in a small dish of water in the microwave. Perhaps I didn't cook it long enough. She did eat some the other night, but hasn't really touched it today, I left it in the tank as her breakfast as she had so much left so she'll be having flakes or tubifex worms tonight.

I think I'll try breaking off little bits and maybe sticking some to my finger and feeding her that way, like I do with the blood worms. That way it's little bits at a time and the stuff doesn't end up everywhere!
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