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Author Topic: Sick Goldfish  (Read 1039 times)
zana
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Sick Goldfish
« on: April 06, 2013, 09:03:40 PM »

Hi Everyone,

I am completely new to this. A little back story: I inherited these fish from my ex. He abandoned them here when I kicked him out. I have never owned fish in my life. I tried to ask him how to take care of them but all he told me was to change the filter once a month. So I'm on my own. There are 8 goldfish. They are supposedly around five years old and as far as I know have been in the same tank the whole time though moved around a lot. One of them did die a few months ago while my boyfriend was still living here. Since they were his responsibility I have no idea what happened. He didn't even notice it had died. I was the one that saw it.

Anyway, after he moved out my mother suggested I get some algae eaters because there was a lot of algae in the tank. We bought two. One died within a few days. We didn't think much of it because the guy who bagged them really rough housed them when trying to catch them. Also, we did follow the directions on how to introduce them. The second sucker fish seemed fine. Then today I noticed that one of the goldfish seemed off. He's hanging out in a top corner kind of listless and not really eating. They're usually very active with good appetites. Then upon further inspection I noticed that the sucker fish is dying. He's upside down and not moving but his little mouth is still going.

The goldfish shows absolutely no signs of rot or fungus or parasites or anything that I can see. The only symptom seems to be listless and not eating. He is floating a little on his side but that's a new symptom that's come about as the day has worn on. I don't have a lot of info to provide as this was not my pet habitat but I'll try to answer the questions in the sticky note.

Any help would be appreciated. Right now I have the sick fish separated and I have no idea what to do.


1. How big is your tank:  I have no idea. It's 18 inches tall and 30 inches across.

2. For how long has the tank been set up: In this apartment almost two years.

3. How many fish: 9 total.

4. What kind of fish: goldfish and one sucker fish.

5. What are the water parameters:    No idea.

6. How often do you perform water changes: I did one today after seeing that they were ill. Before that it had been months as far as I know.

7. How big are your waterchanges:     Today I did almost 50% but before that he would do about a quarter of the tank.

8. What kind of waterconditioner are you using: Tetra aquasafe and easy balance.

9. Do you add beneficial bacteria: Not that I know of.

10. Symptoms your fish is showing: See above.

11. Since when does your fish show these symptoms:    See above.

12. How is the normal behaviour of your fish: Normally they are fine. Active, alert, hungry.

13. How do the other fish behave: Everyone seems fine except for the one goldfish and the sucker fish.

14. Post pics of the sick fish: I attached pics since it wouldn't let me post them in the post.

15. Do you have a filter on your tank, what kind, how big (gallons per hour): It's a whisper filter. it says 20 40 on it. That's all I know.

16. Do you provide extra aeration with an air pump and air stone/diffuser of some kind: There's an air pump.
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Skwishee
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2013, 06:59:41 AM »

Hi Zana, welcome to the forums Smiley

Firstly I think the health problems of the fish could be caused by multiple things here;
1) Tank size, could you measure your tank to find out the dimensions? It sounds like your tank may be too small for the level of stock you have which leads me to my next point....
2) Overstocking, it sounds like you have 8 goldfish and one sucker fish? You would need an extremely large tank or pond to be able to keep up to 8 goldfish. Single tailed goldfish, the type you posted in your pictures, can grow up to 1 foot in length and require much larger tanks than people realise.
3) Tank Maintenance, with goldfish the recommended maintenance is to change at least 50% of the water per week. This is so the water can be of a good quality, otherwise toxins from the fishes poo will be building up over time, so with in-frequent water changes that are done months at a time, will mean that you could possibly have ammonia or nitrite (both very bad for fish) which could be affecting them.

My advice would be the following;
*Take a sample of water to your pet store and/or purchase a liquid water testing kit, and find out if you have any ammonia or nitrites in the tank, the level needs to be 0ppm, also find out what your nitrate level is, ideally it needs to be below 40ppm.
*If you find out you do have ammonia, nitrites or a high level of nitrates, do daily water changes on the tank, around 30-50% daily, regularly checking the water until the ammonia/nitrite values are back to 0ppm and nitrates stay below 40ppm.
*It would also be a good idea, to clean the filter, as long as you rinse the filter sponges in old tank water from one of your water changes, it'll be fine -DO NOT rinse the media under a tap, it will kill the beneficial bacteria that live there Wink

With the tanks you have the fish separated in, do these have filters? If they do, follow the above advice and make sure water quality is good for them, if they don't pick up two small internal filters for the tanks if you're able and see if you can borrow some media from the current filter to put inside them (the filter set up will have beneficial bacteria) or you're other option would be to add them back to the main tank, if you feel there is no risk of infection to other fish and deal with the water quality in one go.

I think getting to grips with the water quality first, will be the best thing, once we can establish what size tank you have, we can help you deal with the over stocking Smiley

Take your time to read things through and if you have any questions at all, fire away, we would be more than happy to answer them Smiley Hope the fish are doing okay Smiley
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 07:14:20 AM by Skwishee » Logged
scrivens345
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2013, 07:04:11 AM »

How long is the tank, you really need at least 3 ft for goldies. In all probability over-stocking is behind the health issues Whilst easy-balance is pretty good at nitrate locking, it doesn't stand much chance in a small tank.

you would need  a 150 gallon tank to safely house these fish. My advice would be to try and re-house them with someone who has a pond, where they would thrive.
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Skwishee
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2013, 07:15:26 AM »

Scrivens if the fish have been in the tank for 5 years, will they survive being put into a pond now? Surely it would be a shock to their system if they've been kept indoors all this time?

Zana may I ask how big the fish are currently?
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 07:17:54 AM by Skwishee » Logged
zana
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2013, 07:29:09 AM »

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for your input. Just wanted to mention that they have been in the tank they're in right now for the last five years. So would tank size be an issue if that's where they've been already all this time? I did post the measurements. Did I do it wrong? It's 30 inches long according to my tape measure. And 18 inches tall. It's a pretty big tank. I just don't know the gallon amount.

Unfortunately I already washed the filter media under the tap as I did not realize. I was desperate trying to help them once I saw the two were sick. I did not use any soap though and when I did the water change I only did about 40% of the water.

An update as of this morning:

The sucker fish seems to have bounced back. He looks totally normal now. Should I put him back in the tank or leave him separate?

The goldfish looks worse and I feel awful. Now he is on the bottom of his separate tank and lying on his side. He is still breathing but he's obviously not well.

The separate tanks are just little plastic thingies. I do not have all kinds of spare tanks nor do I have the money to buy them. Like I said, I've never owned fish. They are not my thing. But I'm trying to do right by them. For legal reasons I can't just get rid of them nor do I want to. I want to try to make this work on the budget I have. I can see about going to the pet store today and getting a water testing kit but I can't buy more tanks or filters. Maybe I should return the sucker fish if they let me? Or will they just kill it if I tell them it was sick?

Anyway, I do appreciate the advice and I am trying to cooperate. If you have any advice on what to do with the two fish I would appreciate it. And also, I guess if there's any advice about the fact that I did wash the filter media in the tap. I'm sorry. I didn't know. All this was dumped on me and when I tried to Google info I didn't see anything that said not to do that.
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zana
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2013, 07:31:21 AM »

Scrivens? What's that? And I don't have an outdoor pond. Most of the fish are about an inch long maybe a little more. One of them is bigger than the rest though. About two and a half inches. Aside from the sucker fish they have all lived together the last five years.
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Skwishee
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2013, 08:11:51 AM »

Hi Zana, I understand about the filters, if the algae eater seems better and visually there's no sign of infection/parasites, you could introduce him back to the main tank.
If you do want to return him to the store, you can always ask if they will take him back.

As for the poorly goldfish, it doesn't sound good.... I would get the water tested on both tanks as soon as you can, be sure to buy a liquid test kit (not the strips) as the liquid test kit while more expensive initially will last you a lot longer and be cheaper in the long run. I've had my liquid test kit for well over a year and still have plenty left! Wink

In the mean time you could try doing small daily water changes on the goldfish in the separate tank, say between 30-50% daily. See if that helps, is the little guy eating at all?

Generally with the fish being small, goldfish never truly stop growing (at least I don't think they do), but from what I understand their growth can slow and this is called 'stunting'. I have a goldfish who's stunted and she currently lives in a 3 foot/23 gallon tank by herself until she's bigger.

Do you know the width length of the tank? We can work out the gallons if we have all 3 dimensions, height/length/width Smiley

You're doing the best you can Smiley I can appreciate this is all a lot of information to take on board.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 08:16:29 AM by Skwishee » Logged
zana
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2013, 08:34:22 AM »

12 inches wide. So 18 inches tall. 30 inches across (like arm to arm for example). And 12 inches on the side. I hope I did that right!

I think I'll call the pet store and see if they'll take the algae eater back without killing him.

I don't think the goldfish is eating but he also can't move very well so I'm not sure. I was reading in another forum to try peas. Have you heard of that? And also adding salt to the water?

I'm going to go to the pet store today to get water testing stuff. Someone else also mentioned something called stress coat. Do you know if that's better than aquasafe and easybalance?

Thank you for your help!
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zana
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2013, 08:47:03 AM »

Just tried to feed him some peas (cooked and mashed) but he showed no interest.
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Skwishee
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2013, 08:57:43 AM »

I used to use stress coat, it's a good water conditioner, but I used it up like crazy. You're more than welcome to give it a go though, personally I've had best experience with using a water conditioner called Prime. It's strong stuff and the dosage you need is very small, I brought a large bottle around a year ago of Prime and I've not even used a quarter of it yet.

Prime can skew ammonia liquid tests though, so if you do use it in the future, keep in mind not to let the ammonia test sit and instead check the colour of it straight away Smiley

As for the tank it's 28 gallons/2.5 foot in length.... I'm not entirely sure about what tank upgrade to suggest right now....
Hmmm Scrivens what upgrade do you think would be suitable, given the size of the fish? I would think perhaps a slightly larger tank 4 foot or so and see how they grow? What do you reckon?

I might go and ask on another forum for you and see what they say, it's difficult when you have stunted fish in the picture because you just don't know how big they'll grow, in some cases when fish have been upgraded they've massively increase in size, but in other situations like my own, the fish will continue to grow just very slowly.

Maybe try blanching some brocolli for the goldfish instead? Really not sure what else to suggest if the poor thing isn't eating  Huh
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zana
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2013, 09:14:31 AM »

Thank you. I just feel so bad for him suffering. I wish I could take him to the vet or something. It seems cruel to just watch him die. When I go to the pet store I'll see what advice they have though it's just a Petsmart so I'm not sure how much they really know. I appreciate all the info and help. I'm completely new at this. Never owned fish in my life. I wish my ex had taken them but he didn't and there's not much I can do about that now. Just try to do right by them as much as I can. If it truly seems like I'm unable to provide for them I'll consider rehoming. Mostly right now just worried about the sick fish. Sad
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Skwishee
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2013, 09:31:51 AM »

By all means ask at pet smart, but be careful, they are sales people first and might try selling you a whole bunch of things.
I would say get the water quality checked first, before buying any medications.

If the water quality is fine, then we can rule it out and begin thinking what illness could be at hand here, but if the water quality is the issue, then you'll know and wouldn't have to spend money on medications you wouldn't need Wink
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Skwishee
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2013, 04:01:43 PM »

Hey hun, here's the thread on that other forum, the members there have given advice r.e. what to do about the fish- (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.) so feel free to take a read and see what you think Smiley
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scrivens345
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2013, 02:23:54 AM »

Healthy 5 year old goldfish should be 10 inches long
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Skwishee
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2013, 03:41:39 AM »

I think ordinary 5 year goldfish, would be around 1 foot by now, one of the updated goldfish growth charts shows a 2 year old goldfish should be 9 inches. But I don't see what use this information is in this situation, it's not Zana's fault about their size if their previous owner was the one that put them all in that tank to begin with.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 04:29:00 AM by Skwishee » Logged
zana
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2013, 11:43:17 PM »

Just wanted to say a quick thank you to everyone who replied. Sorry I'm not replying till now. I ended up returning the sucker fish to the store. He actually bounced back and appeared totally fine. I had the water tested and they said it was perfect. Unfortunately the goldfish is still sick and looking worse. He's my main concern right now and I just feel so bad for him. He's just lying on his side, not eating but still breathing. As mentioned before no spots or anything on him. Nothing looks out of place except his behavior. If there's any other advice on how to help him it would be appreciated.

Thanks again!
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Skwishee
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2013, 01:48:03 PM »

If a goldfish isn't eating there's not a lot that can be done as it will eventually starve  Undecided
Sometimes you can get fish food that has garlic, which some people try if a fish is hesitant at taking food, apparently garlic tastes awesome for fish, so you could always give that a go.
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scrivens345
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2013, 07:14:41 AM »

At one time goldies were commonly kept in small tanks and   expected to live between 3 and 5 years, so you've done quite well considering. Nowadays, given the right conditions 15 years might be expected

Try feeding brine shrimps as it is easily digested
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Skwishee
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2013, 04:37:12 AM »

How is the little fish doing? Any improvements?
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Vicloz2006
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2013, 03:58:39 PM »

I don't know if anyone else mentioned but did you check that the algea eater was for coldwater?
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zana
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2013, 06:37:06 PM »

Hi Everyone,

Sorry for disappearing. Well, unfortunately the goldfish died. He had one day where he seemed to bounce back and then the next day he was gone.

Now I'm concerned about one of the other goldfish. Maybe I'm just not cut out for this. I just noticed that his eyes are cloudy. He's the big one of the bunch. It is possible he's had cloudy eyes for awhile as I'm new at this and previously wasn't really paying attention to them since they weren't mine. He appears to be swimming normally and eating normally. He's the only one with cloudy eyes. Any thoughts?

Thanks for all your help guys. I'm sorry I wasn't able to save the other fish. I tried but I guess it's hard when you're not even sure exactly what's wrong with them in the first place.
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scrivens345
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2013, 06:45:39 AM »

Cloudy eyes are usually a sign of poor water quality

I would do a large water change, and if the problem persists dose with an anti-biotic
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Skwishee
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2013, 04:33:04 PM »

Hi, sorry to hear about the goldfish Sad

I think your main issue is that the tank simply has too many goldfish, this will lead to poor water conditions and possibly ill health as you've already seen and now shown by the cloudy eyes you've mentioned. 28 gallons for 7 goldfish is an awful lot. Of course I appreciate that this isn't your fault as the fish came to you like this.

How often have you been able to do water changes? Remember you'll be wanting to do at least 50% each week Smiley
Do you mind if I ask where about's in the world you are? It would definitely be worth looking possibly for a fish rescue service or finding a fish keeping society that may be able to help you, I have a fish rescue service near me here in Wales that have been very helpful with giving me advice about my common goldfish (that should really be in a pond too) and I just feel if you could have similar support, it might help, especially as this is all a very new experience Smiley
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 04:36:48 PM by Skwishee » Logged
zana
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2013, 11:22:26 PM »

See, this is what I didn't realize. There's a lot of conflicting info out there. I was afraid of changing the water too much so I was only going to do it once a month. Obviously that wasn't often enough. I'm trying a weekly schedule now (of partial water changes) and knock on wood everyone looks great. No cloudy eyes. Active and eating. Fins look good. No fungus or anything. So hopefully the weekly changes will do the trick for now in keeping them all happy and healthy till I can get a bigger tank.

I'm in the United States. Smiley

Thanks!
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scrivens345
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2013, 02:31:10 AM »

Well done Zana! The vast majority of health issues do tend to be related to water quality. My motto is " If in doubt, perform a large water change"

keep up the large water changes each week and you shouldn't have many problems. You might be able to find a larger tank on craig's list or another site. Smiley
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Skwishee
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2013, 11:32:39 AM »

In the United States? Okay, I'll drop a message to one of our members who's over there and has connections with fish organizations, hopefully she'll see it and can let me know.
You could always try a google search for local fish rescue services or fish keeping organizations. They will be able to help, perhaps even know someone who may have a larger tank for sale. Also check second hand sites like preloved for any tanks as well Smiley

If you would like to keep all the fish though, you would need an awfully large tank... or a pond... It could be an option to get a larger tank and rehome some of them? Perhaps have a think about what you'd be able to do Smiley
The only awkward thing really, is not knowing how much more the fish will grow....

I understand about the conflicting evidence, it can be awfully conflicting Wink You're doing a great job Smiley
« Last Edit: May 18, 2013, 11:41:04 AM by Skwishee » Logged
zana
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2013, 02:45:38 AM »

Thanks so much everyone, for all your help! I'm keeping my eyes peeled on Craigslist and in the pet store for sales on tanks. Thank you!
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Skwishee
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2013, 03:46:37 PM »

I haven't heard anything back from our other member, but do look around for local fish groups/societies, who will be able to help you out and may even have a good deal.... In fact I do remember hearing about a petco sale from American members, they apparently do a dollar per gallon deal and this would be helpful, maybe getting something like an 80 gallon tank or so.... that would at least give 20 gallons for the first fish and then 10 gallons per fish.....

Good luck with the tank search, I think for the main issue is not being sure how badly their stunted and if they'll grow...... It'll help you gauge which fish will have a growth spurt and may need re homing to a pond or if the fish will remain stunted.... I might drop a rescue service near me a message, they've had a lot of experience with stunted fish and might have some useful advice Smiley
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Skwishee
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2013, 12:24:30 PM »

Hey lovely heard back from the rescue service and this is what they said:

"it really depends on the type of gold fish, commons can grow up to 18 to 24 inches in ideal conditions, we have goldies a foot long in our ponds, the more fancy goldies can reach up to 8 to 10 inch maby a touch bigger in some cases if well looked after. 80 gals would be fine for the mo, but a pond or bigger tank will be needed at a later date, i always recomend a pond as soon as they get too big for a tank not only for the sake of the fish but it will cost you a prity penny to have a huge tank with filters than it will to build a pond. also goldies grow faster in a tank because they are fed all year unlike there pond mates who don't feed in the winter months. scoliosis is your main enemy when it comes to keeping goldfish in a tank and the faster they grow the more pronounced the scoliosis will be and the more damaging it is to the fish"

So basically while a larger tank will help, as your goldfish are commons will require a huge tank or pond at a later date, which as they've said is rather expensive, so perhaps look in to what's around your local area, you may find a fish rescue service or someone with a pond that has small fish that could possibly take yours on.

It all depends on what you are able to do (no one expects you to spend a whole bunch of money building a pond if it's not possible or realistic for your situation), so just have a think Wink I did ask them again about stunting and will let you know what they say further on the topic, all the best x

----
EDIT

They have said that stunted fish will grow, they just won't reach full size. So I think keep in mind what was said above, that if the fish grow a lot a pond will be needed, there is a possibility that they won't grow very much and will remain small for a number of years. But it's hard to tell or know with stunted goldfish, there isn't any real research out there about them just a lot of anecdotal evidence.

I really really hope this information isn't too overwhelming, feel free to ask questions galore, if there's anything you're unsure about. Do you have any photos of the fish currently? If not could you take some? As I am very wary about scoliosis (Bent Spine), do any of them display a bent spine? (This could either be a bent spine vertically or horizontally).

So I'd hold off on buying a tank at the moment and we can establish if scoliosis is there.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 04:15:45 AM by Skwishee » Logged
zana
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Re: Sick Goldfish
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2013, 02:54:42 PM »

Sigh, okay, I have an emergency of sorts. Will reply to your other comments after this. So there was a freak accident last night while I was sleeping. In the tank there's a decorative building thingie. I don't know what they are formally called but it looks like old ruins, is made out of some kind of plastic or something and it's hollow so they can swim through it. As far as I know it's always been in the tank and there's never been any problems with it.

I went to bed late last night. I'm a night owl, so 3am. I counted the fish before going to bed. I actually count them several times a day to make sure everyone's there which might seem silly but I'm glad I did. When I got up today (late, I admit) I was short one fish. For the life of me I couldn't figure out where he was so finally I decided to just start at the top (taking out the filter) and work my way down. Finally I got to the "ruins" and took it out and still didn't see the missing fish. Then, just by chance, I noticed a fin sticking out in my peripheral view where I was holding the decoration. Turns out on the bottom of it there's on small section that's kind of lip shaped (curved). I never knew it was there because I had never taken the fixture out before. Somehow he managed to slip inside that lip and get stuck there. God knows what time he did that. Obviously after 3am but if it was only shortly after he could have been there for hours.

I was able to get him out easily but he is clearly not well. I do not see any obvious injuries or wounds but he seems unable to swim normally and is mostly just lying on his side. I have him separated out. He is in his main tank but I have a mesh divider thing I use to keep him separate from the other fish. He's not eating. He occasionally tries to swim but seems unable to do it. He also sometimes looks like he's having a seizure. He seems to vibrate then go still and then start breathing again.

I feel so bad. Sad Is there anything else I can do for him? Should I take the fixture out? In seven years I don't think there's ever been a problem with it before. I broke off the lip of the fixture and just used the gravel on the bottom of the tank to kind of wedge it back into place. Everyone else looks fine.
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