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Author Topic: Crazy high PH in new tank  (Read 2199 times)
mumzilla
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Crazy high PH in new tank
« on: July 14, 2010, 08:30:52 PM »

I posted a bit ago about the fungus in my tank. I was at the point of just foregoing fish altogether, but my LFS guy emailed me to tell me he was FINALLY getting my ranchus in and he had some rescue fish for me to come check out. So the rescue fish are GORGEOUS and I took 3 of them. (two 6" shubunkins and a 4" fantail). So they are still at the store because I wanted to tear down my tank and start over to make sure the fungus was GONE. So the tank has been cycling for 24 hours - I plan on bringing the babies home tomorrow. I bought another tank for the ranchus because I knew they would need to have a chance to get bigger before being in with the 'big boys'. Anyway -to my question- I got the dipstick test kit and tested both my old water(I saved some when I dumped the tank) and my new and everything is fab--except my PH and alkalinity are the highest they can be on the chart. Before everyone jumps on me for more info there are NO fish in the tank right now and the fish I did have before were fine in the high PH until I brought home a sick fish. So how high is too high for goldfish and can they survive in consistently high PH water? The poor rescue fish were in a 45 hex with 45 fish -including SIX 10" koi!
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Hanna
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Re: Crazy high PH in new tank
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2010, 08:49:31 PM »

Well, how high is the reading of your pH ??

Have you got the powder to adjust the pH in your water?  it is called "pH Down" available in every pet store.

Also paperstrips are inaccurate!

Better to have drops, test tubes.

Ideal pH for Goldfish is 7.2-7.4
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Hanna
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Re: Crazy high PH in new tank
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2010, 08:55:45 PM »

Also please remember:  POOR WATERQUALITY LEADS TO STRESSED FISH

                                      STRESSED FISH ARE PRONE TO GET DESEASES

                                      DESEASES CAN LEAD TO DEATH

This are basic rules always to be kept in mind. So please make absolutely SURE that your waterquality is right before you think about it to add fish. Sure you understand...
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mumzilla
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Re: Crazy high PH in new tank
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2010, 10:08:16 PM »

Thanks, I do understand. I also understand that I can get 4 different suggestions for proper PH levels from 4 different people and as I do more research I see that most articles say it is worse to change the PH than to let the fish adjust. Every other water parameter is spot on so I think I will get some driftwood, which can consistantly lower PH and let my fishy darlings enjoy their new space.
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Andrea
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Re: Crazy high PH in new tank
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2010, 03:14:24 AM »

There is also this little blocks that a ph neutralisers. They just sit in the bottom of the tank and slowly dissolve according to ph levels. I think they are great so I highly recommend them. I've always used them and I have never had problems with pH even though I have a much to small tank. I did not know that about driftwood so that sounds good but maybe check out the neutraliser blocks too just for some extra help Smiley
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Nossie
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Re: Crazy high PH in new tank
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2010, 04:31:51 AM »

Momzilla: I highly recommend you buying some "proper" test kits, since you're about to get new fish, and you will need to test the water in future, so get yourself a kit with drop tests for all the important parameters Smiley By the way, I know many people who keep their goldfish in pH around 7-8 and even 8.4, so your fish should be alright there, if it's not higher than this, it should be perfectly alright Wink

Another thing, is that I guess you tested for ammonia and nitrite + nitrates already, right? If you say that the water's good? Well, in this case I have a small piece of advice for you Smiley It would be great if you would be testing the water every day for the first week of keeping the fish in the tank! Because the tank, as it is now, might not yet be used to the constant levels of ammonia being created by fish, so you should be ready to change the water whenever the ammonia/nitrite values go too high! Just a small water change when needed, about 10% of the water.

And I wonder, how big is your tank? I can't find that anywhere in your post Smiley But the bigger the better, especially in the start, it'll be safer to cycle Wink
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Hanna
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Re: Crazy high PH in new tank
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2010, 08:07:01 AM »

Hi Momzilla,
of course it is NOT good at all if the fish experience changes in pH all the time. In case they ARE adjusted to higher pH this is fine.

But reading of "crazy high pH in new tank" I thought sth happened to your pH in there.
Besides that the IDEAL pH IS 7.2-7.4 does not mean that goldfish cannot live in a bit higher or lower pH as long as they are adapted to it.
A sudden drop or rise, this is alarming and this is what I thought happened in your tank and you was worried about.

Using driftwood is very good, fish love it, also as Andrea mentioned you can get pH neutralizers. This is what pet shops recommend too. A good pet shop also asks how the tanks waterquality -including pH- is
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mumzilla
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Re: Crazy high PH in new tank
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2010, 11:21:38 AM »

My tanks are both cycling within all parameters and fishes are happy. Even my psycho rescues are calming down. I have , in the meantime switched to a different forum where I am not screamed at with words misspelled. Thanks for the advice - I want to believe you were well meaning.
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Nossie
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Re: Crazy high PH in new tank
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2010, 04:13:42 AM »

Err... are you saying that you feel like people are yelling at you here? In that case, I'd like to point out that using capital letters mean that these words are emphasized, not screamed at your face. It's just important stuff that needs to be highlighted Smiley So chill, and don't think that either of us is angry at you or anything!
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Hanna
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Re: Crazy high PH in new tank
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2010, 05:03:37 AM »

Geez, aww... mumzilla, I am very surprized you think like this. Nobody screems and yelles here, and nothing was misspelled.
We are here on a forum to help each other and sometimes we DO (emphasized) debate about different things, because everybody is entitled to his/her own opinion. Reading through the posts here, you'll find some very "hot" debates between some members, but they still are here and I believe I can call them to be best online friends.

I'd like to explain why I emphasized the issue: reading about a "Crazy high pH" I really was worried that sth drastic happened and immediate action was necessary. The reason is because I had a sudden drop of pH in our tank and I was frantic, I had to readjust this pH back to 7.4 otherwise our fishies would have died with acidosis. Also if people asking for help, we like to point out the basic but nevertheless important things in fish keeping because we cannot know how experienced a new member is.

So hopefully, as Nossie said, please settle down and you're welcome to the forum, you know that.
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Mindemae
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Re: Crazy high PH in new tank
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2010, 12:27:17 PM »

My ph my goldfish have always lived in is around 7.8-8.0.
Some of my fish are over 11 years old.
Goldfish can live in and adjust to a higher ph, so I don't know why people bother worrying or adjusting the ph to lower it.
Goldfish can even live in more acidic water or neutral but higher acidic water causes stress.
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Nossie
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Re: Crazy high PH in new tank
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2010, 03:34:44 AM »

It's the fluctuations in pH that's the bother for a fish, even the smallest change is noticed by the fish, and they usually get quite stressed by that.

I'd say that you save the pH controlling for more delicate tropical fish.
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Hanna
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Re: Crazy high PH in new tank
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2010, 03:48:51 PM »

The normal range for pH in blood is 7.35-7.45. in this range the metabolism works the best, this also means that the red bloodcells, the erythrocytes can carry the optimal amount of oxygen.

If we keep our water at this pH range with the best O2 solubility, then it is the best for our fishies. This is why I DO adjust the pH, also because our water here has got a very high alkalinity.
And this is also the reason why I got frantic when I had this sudden drop pf pH in the small tank. Our fishies were dashing and hovering to the surface. If I wouldn't have acted straight away, they sure would have died.

I also agree that if a fish is adapted to another pH range and feels comfy , to keep that pH instead of exposing the fish to fluctuations.
 Wink
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Nossie
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Re: Crazy high PH in new tank
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2010, 03:42:49 AM »

Yeah, a lowering of the pH is very bad for fish! They'll simply be getting burned in the acidic water, and that's a very slow process with lots of alarming symptoms before that, just like hovering by the surface or bottom, getting milky skin...

<offtopic>By the way! I found something very important lately Smiley I found that big and sudden fluctuations in temperature (when it'd be cold) can go right into the internal organs of the fish, and ESPECIALLY THE KIDNEYS. This usually causes dropsy, and it's most common reason to why a fish gets more serious cases of dropsy where you can't save it anymore. Just thought it might be good to know Smiley</offtopic>
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Hanna
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Re: Crazy high PH in new tank
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2010, 04:12:42 AM »

Not only that, in acidic water they would die with acidosis, this means their blood pH would drop too after a while and they would suffocate due to too less O2 in their bloodstream.

The info about the temp fluctuations is very interesting. We did install the heater wich came with the tank to keep it constant during the nights, it is cold now here too. Untypically cold. We keep it now about 24-25 degrees Celsius.
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Nossie
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Re: Crazy high PH in new tank
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2010, 04:36:25 AM »

Yeah, their blood would more or less lose the ability to carry oxygen around in their body, so they start gasping for air. The same happens during alkalosis Wink Not to mention that their gills and skin get irritated. But of course, in a fast drop/rise of pH, the fish will die rather fast, after darting around the tank and trying to jump out of the water.

I'll add some more details Smiley (I keep reading that chapter over and over to remember everything from it...) When temperature rises fast, the fish's heart rate will increase along with a greater need for oxygen, and they usually start speeding in the tank + they'll display rapid gill movements. It's also destroying the protein and enzymes in the fishes' bodies while cells damaged this way start creating toxic metabolites. During extreme thermal stress, the fish slip into a coma as the nervous system shuts down. Which is reversible if you place it in the correct temp asap.
Falling temps, use to make the bodies of tropical fish to cease functioning like normal, because they can't generate enough energy in too cool water. It also cripples the ability to take up oxygen in the water, as the heart rate lowers and tehy start breathing slower and less. Sudden cooling simply removes the blood's ability to carry sufficient oxygen, as it kills the red blood cells. It also can cause the salt pumps in the gills to stop working properly which will lead to kidney failure. Again, the fish can slip into a coma during extreme falls in temperature.

By the way, did you know that fish are looking for warmer water when they're sick? c:
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Hanna
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Re: Crazy high PH in new tank
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2010, 05:40:47 AM »

Very good post Nossie, congrats, this is worth another karma.  Grin

No, I didn't know that Shocked
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Nossie
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Re: Crazy high PH in new tank
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2010, 05:00:18 AM »

Ojj, thank you! 8'D
I gave you one earlier as well for the good advice Smiley

So, maybe it'd be good to raise the temp a few degrees when our fish get sick? If that's their instincts? Nah, I have to do some research about that! Cheesy
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Hanna
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Re: Crazy high PH in new tank
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2010, 06:25:37 AM »

 Wink Thanks Nossie, yes maybe.

I don't know, did I mention that we put a heater in our big tank to keep the temp stable as the winternights here are really chilly now... freezing  Grin about 7 degrees
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Nossie
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Re: Crazy high PH in new tank
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2010, 02:50:25 PM »

I read somewhere that you have it set around 24 degrees if I'm not mistaken, yes Smiley I have a heater for my bigger tank too, that I thought I'd use during winters Smiley

Hey, how's your tank doing? Is the ammonia gone by now or? Smiley
I'm working on that beautiful piece of furniture that will support my tank! It should be ready for painting sometime soon! Cheesy And then we'll move as soon as an apartment will be found, yay! Grin
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Hanna
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Re: Crazy high PH in new tank
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2010, 04:33:12 PM »

Yes, it is , all is going well, nitrates are about 10. last test from yesteday.
Fishies are happy dancing and wiggling. Grin

Thank you
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Nossie
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Re: Crazy high PH in new tank
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2010, 03:43:33 AM »

Great! Smiley I've been doing water changes twice a week lately... man, I really need to set my 83 gallon up asap!
By the way, Horus seems to be really grumpy, I tried putting some of my other fish with him to put less strain on the filter in the other tank, and he was chasing them around, bullying them both |: Seems like he thinks that orb is his, and his only d: Hope I won't get problems introducing him to the new home later |:
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Hanna
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Re: Crazy high PH in new tank
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2010, 05:44:52 AM »

Sounds like it, Nossie that you need it asap.
Did your water chemistry go bad?

I think Horus will be fine with the other fish if he's not in his orb anymore Smiley
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Nossie
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Re: Crazy high PH in new tank
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2010, 05:34:38 AM »

The water's alright, the nitrates are, thanks to water changes, staying around 20-30ppm. I'll be changing some more again tonight d: Now I'm up to changing around 2-3 times a week. Man, I hope we'll get an apartment soon Sad I've had to decline three offers because all of them were far too expensive for now |:

Me too, even if he's a bit territorial now, I bet he'll have enough space in the bigger tank Smiley
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