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Author Topic: PLEASE help my goldish!  (Read 1026 times)
HelpMyFishies
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PLEASE help my goldish!
« on: September 16, 2010, 01:08:30 PM »

ACK! I really don't know what to do and I'm very concerned for my goldfish...
I have a 37 gallon tank with two sarasa goldfish, one shubunkin, two cory catfish, two pictus catfish and a plecostomous. The pictus cats are a fairly recent addition.

Here's my issue- a few days ago I noticed one of my sarasas had what looked like the beginning stages of Ich on his tail and a few faint, thin red veins in his tail and a small tear in his tail fin. I figured I would wait a couple days just to make sure it was indeed Ich. Then a day later I noticed a redish, spot on his body just before the bottom of his tail. However now all THREE of my goldfish have tears in their fins with thin red veins running to those spots with FAINT little white spots that I feel like were not there before... All three of them spend most of their time at the bottom of the tank not moving at all now with the exception of swimming madly around the tank and splashing about near the top. Fortunately they do still seem interested in eating...

A about 2 months ago I had a butterfly that started exhibiting the EXACT same issues. Tears in his tins, little red blotches, hiding/lethargy, but occasionally swimming erratically and splashing near the surface. Unfortunately I could not figure out what was wrong so I separate him and dosed him with melafix until I could figure out the real issue. I had to move and give him to a good friend before I could diagnose him, but he's still alive and healthy according to his new owner!

PLEASE PLEASE help me out folks! Thank you!!!!
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Hanna
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Re: PLEASE help my goldish!
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2010, 03:53:28 PM »

First: WELCOME to the forum. Wink

Second: Your tank is heavily OVERstocked and the fish show signs of stress which leads to illness.
This issue has been mentioned more than a dozen times on the forum.

Stress and illness is a sign of poor waterquality which also can be due to overstocking.
Rule of thumb: 10 gallons per 1 goldfish. Everybody else in the tank should be moved to another tank.

Test  the water quality asap for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, pH and temperature
Please post the numerical results and do a 50% water change using conditioner, etc.
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HelpMyFishies
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Re: PLEASE help my goldish!
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2010, 04:42:41 PM »

Great, I really appreciate your response!
I'll do what I can to snag another tank to move everyone else into... I tested the water recently and the only thing that was high was the ammonia, of course, from the goldfish. So I'll do what I can to lower that.

My one concern now is that the koi I had that showed these same symptoms continued to show them for an extended period of time even after I removed him from the tank and put him in a 30 gallon container all on his own... Can you think of any actual diseases that might cause this instead?
« Last Edit: September 16, 2010, 04:46:25 PM by HelpMyFishies » Logged
Hanna
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Re: PLEASE help my goldish!
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2010, 02:54:59 AM »

First and main reason of deseases to develop is stress through poor water quality.
Seems that your tank is undergoing another cycle with ammonia showing.
How much Ammonia did you read?

Well, goldfish eat lots and create lots of waste, but at this stage I'd say it is because the tank is overstocked. So very good that you will get another tank to keep your goldfish in one and the other peeps in the other Smiley
Also please do the waterchange  asap, feed less for now and get some good plants too.

What kind of filter do you have? Ideally it should turn 2-3 times as much per hour as the tank size is.

Veins in fins and fin base and torn fins is an early sign of fin rot. White spots can be fungus too, if they look sort of fuzzy.
You shoudn't "wait" with treatment.

Treat immediately with Pimafix and Melafix for the fins. Remove the carbon if you got any in your filter.
According to ich in very early stages, salt treatment is recommended according to instructions and slightly increase the water temp.

Hope this helps.

Any more questions, please ask any time.

Hope your fishies will do well soon Smiley
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Nossie
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Re: PLEASE help my goldish!
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2010, 02:20:19 PM »

I'm pretty certain it's simply water quality issues, you'd better change some big amounts of water for a few days while testing regularly. If you want to, you could add some salt and melafix to the aquarium to help them recover.

And also, give away some of your fish, you can't keep any more than three goldfish in that tank.
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HelpMyFishies
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Re: PLEASE help my goldish!
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2010, 02:54:07 PM »

Thanks for responding!
I set up a separate tank for the catfish so now it's just the goldfish and the pleco (since he's fairly hard to find/catch) in the 37 gallon. I've been melafixing and changing their water and I need to do some more tests to see what their levels of ammonia and such are, but even today they seem a little perkier! I've got my fingers crossed and hopefully things will turn around...
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Hanna
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Re: PLEASE help my goldish!
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2010, 03:21:37 PM »

I am glad to hear that, you are doing the right thing. Wink

But can you please let me know how high the Ammonia readings are?
You will also need to test for Nitrite and Nitrate. As you know Ammonia is broken down to Nitrite which is still very toxic to fish and then Nitrite is broken down to Nitrate. Nitrate in higher concentration is toxic to fish too.

As real plants consume Nitrate as fertilizer it is important to have those in the tank too. They also produce Oxygen for the fishes to breath, and keep the algae growth down while using up Nitrates.

What sort of equipment do you have? Filter, airstone?

Can you please post the numeric results of your water tests?

How do the fishies behave now?
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HelpMyFishies
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Re: PLEASE help my goldish!
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2010, 05:07:50 PM »

Real plants would be a good idea. Have any suggestions for what kind?

The Nitrate level looks to be about 15, so that's not perfect, but it's not terribly high. The Nitrite is at 0 so that's good news, but the pH and Alkalinity are definitely on the high side, but I have a water conditioner- Proper pH 7.
I don't know what the ammonia level is as I'm out of testers, but I can always go snag some.

The fish are definitely more active and less lethargic now. One of the fish's tails is looking pretty beaten up though... and I know it's not because they pick on each other.

Oh and I use a 30 gallon topfin filter and I have two airstones running in the tank.
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Hanna
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Re: PLEASE help my goldish!
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2010, 05:38:07 PM »

Maybe you can use this filter in your new tank and get a bigger one for the goldies tank? It should turn 2-3 times more water than the tank volume is per hour.
I know they recommend filters for a certain tank size: expweerience showed though that it is much better to have at least 2 sizes up compared to what they recommend.... much easier maintenance.

The fins will take a while to recover, use Melafix, this will help.
And yes get yourself that missing test kit asap.

Plants: I use the following: Ambulia, Ludwigia, Wisteria, Elodea, Java Fern, Hornworth, Anubias, Ricchia, Fontinalis, Amazon Sword Plant. The Anubias (dwarf one) is planted to a teracotta vase in the goldies tank and in my tropical tanks on pieces of drift wood.
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Hanna
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Re: PLEASE help my goldish!
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2010, 05:42:20 PM »

Ahh yes, the Nitrate level is not too bad. Plants will keep it down, also you can do another w/c.
But make sure you use conditioner and add beneficial bacteria ( I use "Stability" and "Prime" from Seachem ) to the water according to instructions. Goldies can have a pH between 7.2 and 8.2 (8.4) average. They are pretty tolerant but the main thing is that pH is STABLE and does not go up and down all the time.
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Nossie
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Re: PLEASE help my goldish!
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2010, 04:08:14 AM »

Nitrate isn't harmful until it reaches 40ppm, but it's ALWAYS better to keep it somewhere below 20 if possible. And you said "testers"? Does that mean that you've got paper strip tests? In that case, buy a proper test kit with bottles of reagent instead, because the paper strips are usually quite inaccurate, and the bottles last for ages!

Now, you definitely need to get a bigger filter, go for an external power filter, as the internal ones are usually too small to handle the waste of goldfish. Ideally you should get a filter that turns 5 times the tank volume at once, and it should rather be rated for a tank twice as big as yours. I've got an external power filter myself, about 1000L/h and an internal one (smaller) turning 1500L/h, so I've got about 7 times the tank volume being filtered per hour. The small filter is rated for a 260L and the external one for 600L. So it's good to combine two filters as well Smiley In fact, the more the better, "overkill" is always to prefer when it comes to filtration, even 10 times the tank volume would be nice.
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