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Author Topic: Swin Bladder Problem  (Read 1528 times)
Tazz
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Swin Bladder Problem
« on: August 20, 2010, 09:40:00 AM »

Hi. My poor fish seems to have some serious swim bladder problems. Whenever it has anthing to eat, he eventually lands up floating upside down Undecided Ive tried not feeding it, then giving boiled peas, but nothing seems to help! Any other suggestions... thanks Grin
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Nossie
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2010, 03:21:56 PM »

First of all, you could check out the other posts about the problem Smiley There are tons of them! And with lots of useful advice Cheesy

I would like to ask a few questions, please answer them asap Smiley
-How big is your tank?
-How many fish do you keep there?
-What do you usually feed your fish?
-How often do you change the water? How much?
-How old is the fish in question, and what kind of goldfish is it?

Then, I would advice you to gt your water tested, check especially for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, and have the results posted here! Swim bladder disorders usually depend on high levels of nitrate.

Once you'll answer about the diet, I will tell you more about that Smiley But until then, don't feed your fish for three days, and then give only frozen peas. That you of course thaw, and peel before feeding. Boiled peas lose part of their nutrition.
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Summer Time
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2010, 07:15:39 PM »

When a fish has this problem, do you feed him peas for a few days in a row, or just for one day, then back to their normal food?

Also,  are freshwater plants considered vegetables for goldfish, and do they help prevent constipation?

Thanks
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Andrea
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2010, 02:32:03 AM »

I'd say for a few days in a row, however swim bladder problems can be major and peas won't always fix it, it can be a much bigger problem! Oh and peas should be part of their normal food anyway Smiley Goldfish need a varied diet always, not just living off flakes or pellets.
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Nossie
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2010, 02:41:44 AM »

SummerTime: You usually feed them peas for a few days after that, and introduce the peas as a regular part of their diet Smiley And freshwater plants, are indeed a good thing for the fish to eat since it contains fibers and whatnot that are good for your fish Smiley However, I feel like it's easier done simply replacing the plants with fresh vegetables and some prepared foods with vegetable matter.
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Summer Time
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2010, 06:56:37 PM »

Hi,

This is my daughter's fish, who had the swim bladder problem.  He was kind of bouncing around at the top, and she said he does that sometimes, that he's playing.  But I thought he was constipated so we gave him 1/2 pea, and he seemed a little better, but still at the top a little.  

So she gave him 1/2 pea for a few days now, and he seemed to be getting back to normal, until yesterday when I did a 20% water change.  Now he's resting on the bottom.  

His water quality has been kept in excellent condition.  But I'm going to do another water change today, maybe 30-40%, because it seems that most people recommend a water change whenever problems arise.  Does anyone have any advice?  He looks good visibly, no abrasions, etc.

Thanks
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Summer Time
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2010, 08:50:04 PM »

Hi.  I just changed 35% of the water, mostly because I feel like I need to do something, and don't know what else to do. 

When I entered the room, he was sitting on the bottom, but always becomes active when we are looking at him.  He absolutely loves attention, and loves having his tank vacuumed, etc.  He's very active during this water change (as he normally is), but when I left the room for a few minutes and came back, he was back on the bottom. 

I fed him a few flakes (his normal food), and he loved that, and swam around for quite a while. 

Could he just be bored?
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nabi
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2010, 09:59:29 PM »

Does his belly look more bloated than usual? Constipation can affect the swim bladder and cause buoyancy issues for fancy goldfish. It's a good sign that his buoyancy problem corrected itself after you fed him some peas. You should not feed the goldfish normal food yet, but starve him for a day or two , then feed him some peas again.

His digestive system is probably trying to move the food along right now so that could be a reason why he's not very active. In the future , he should be fed a diet of flakes, pellets , vegetable (peas), etc..  so he doesn't become constipated. Pellets can be pre-soaked first so they don't expand too fast inside him and press against the swim bladder.

Bacteria and viruses can infect the swim bladder and cause buoyancy issues also. Doing partial water changes like you're doing is a good idea and keeping the water in top condition will help boost his immune system so he can fight off any infection.  If his condition doesn't improve after a few more days , you can feed him some antibacteria  food just in case it's a bacterial infection.
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Nossie
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2010, 02:24:25 AM »

nabi covered it Smiley

I'd just like to add that you should also be testing your water more frequently now as your fish is displaying problems, knowing for sure that the water quality is as good as it could be is better than assuming Smiley Test before every water change, not after Smiley
And be sure you change nothing less than 50% of the water at a time!! Much better for your fish since you remove more waste and he gets more fresh water to swim around in Wink
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Summer Time
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2010, 07:10:16 PM »

After he ate the flakes, he started bouncing around the top again.  I will use the advice that Nabi and Nossie have posted.  Will let you know how it goes.  Thanks for your help.
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Summer Time
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2010, 09:14:39 PM »

...and he's a comet goldfish.
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Katarine
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2010, 09:28:20 PM »

Comet goldfish can be considered fancy. >.> I'd just take the advice. an illness is an illness, after all Tongue and illnesses affect all fish. I dont believe there are type-specific illnesses when it comes to common or fancy goldfish.
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Hanna
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2010, 04:45:39 AM »

What I miss in this thread are the exact numerical results of the water chemistry, instead of "excellent condition".
Because if he is behaving like this there is sth going on in the water which stresses him and leads to illness.  Sad
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Nossie
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2010, 04:52:39 AM »

Comets are LESS susceptible to swim bladder disorders connected to a poor diet, but it is possible if you're feeding them flakes all the time. Pellets are a much better option for goldfish, as they're easier to eat for bigger fish such as goldies. So you should definitely check out the water chemistry too as high nitrates can attack the swim bladder.
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Summer Time
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2010, 07:01:59 PM »

Hi.  I owe you some readings:

Nitrate = <5
Nitrite = 0
Total hardness = 150
Total alkalinity = 130
pH = 7.6
ammonia = 0

He looks much better now, actually swimming horizontally.  His dorsal fin is up and down, so maybe not completely healthy.  His poo last night was mostly clear (is that air?).

This is my daughter's fish, that she got 5 years ago and kept in a 2 gallon tank, until on August 11 when I switched him to a 10 gallon.  His water quality used to get pretty bad sometimes, but been excellent since August 11.  He is 3" (plus tail).

Until last week he only ate goldfish flakes, and they're small pieces because the can is almost empty.  So maybe he's getting too much air when he eats them.

Is there a place on this site that explains the different types of food?  Like dried bloodworms, etc.?  I want to start using different types of food that we should, but not sure if things need to be pre-soaked, or any other quirks.

I don't want to get the feeding to be too complicated tho, because then what would we do when we're on vacation?  Like if they miss a pea one week, I don't want them to become instantly constipated.

We have not been cooking the peas, just thawing them at room temperature, and taking off the shell and smashing them with our fingers.

We don't use heaters on our tanks.

Captain thanks you for all your help  Smiley
« Last Edit: October 06, 2010, 07:09:14 PM by Summer Time » Logged
Hanna
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2010, 07:32:07 PM »

Hi Summertime.

yes, the water quality is perfect, excellent, brilliant.

So the problem must be somewhere else, maybe it is that fishie was feed only one type of food. It is just like us eating the same food all the time for months  Sad  Tongue  we wouldn't enjoy it anymore and get sick of eating it and our stomack, intestines wouldn't agree with it anymore... lack of variety.

You do excellent with peas, thaw them, shell them and mash them.
The best thing now is to start slowly feeding different foods. There is a huge range of foods available in the pet stores: pellets, flakes, colour enhancing foods, frozen foods, live foods.
Frozen foods you can get bloodworms and brine shrimp; live foods are blackworms.
As fresh foods you can feed peas ( like you already do  Smiley ) also zucchini, broccoli, cucumber, lettuce, watermelon, strawberries, orange pulp.

Please make sure you start to feed a varied diet and fishie will be fine. What's his/her name?

Hope this helps  Wink
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Hanna
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2010, 07:50:25 PM »

I just took pics of the foods I bought for our goldies, towards them they get their fresh treats too and frozen thawed bloodworms and brine shrimp  Grin
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Summer Time
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2010, 10:23:10 PM »

Great pictures!  I forgot to mention that they have live plants to eat also.  This fish is named Captain Smiley
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Nossie
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2010, 03:32:41 AM »

Summer Time: If you'll be feeding a varied diet to your fish while you're home, he won't get constipated while you're away Wink Simply because he won't get any more sensitive than usual, so he can of course withstand a not-varied diet for a while Smiley

I'll make you some nice article about different kinds of foods! Cheesy

[image]


Flaked foods
Most common kind of food for any fish, but unlike most people know, it's mainly for smaller fish, so to be fed to goldfish only while they're smaller than 1-2 inches. Usually is made with both vegetable and fish matter when it comes to goldfish, as they're omnivores. But there are some special vitamins added to them to suit the goldfishes' requirements.

[image]

Pelleted foods
This particular kind contains more vegetable matter than most kinds of pellets, and again, the needed nutrition is added to suit the fish Smiley Pellets are available in many different sizes and shapes to suit different fish. These are called "baby pellets" since they're quite small. Pellets are also available as floating or sinking.

[image]

These are sinking pellets containing a special bacteria that will help fish with their digestion, as you can see, it's for fancy goldfish such as ranchus and orandas Smiley I've got this food for my fish, and it smells like something crawled up in the bag and died, but the fish absolutely love it! Wink

[image]

Freeze-dried Live Foods
On the example are tubifex worms, very nutritious even in the form of dried cubes Wink You should in fact, buy them only as freeze-dried, because they might carry some diseases to your fish otherwise. There are many kinds of live foods available in freeze-dried form! For example Blood worms, krill, brine shrimp, plankton... and so forth! Freeze-dried foods are a wonderful supplement to your fishes' diet, it's very easily fed, and the fish eat it quite readily Smiley (Tubifex is best soaked before feeding though)

[image]

Live foods in Gel
Are also available! Looking quite different between the brands though Wink I've got one of these with brine shrimp, and I would really recommend it as a little contrast towards all the dry foods Smiley This is rather fresh food that will last for months in room temperature! It's also more natural for the fish.

[image]

Fresh and Frozen live foods
In the picture you see blood worms, a very popular food for fish. All the foods mentioned earlier and now can be bought live and frozen. Live, they might introduce some unwanted diseases to your aquarium, but frozen food is very appreciated by the fish Smiley When frozen, they're sold in packs similar to those ice-cube "holders", so you can feed one or a half block at a time. Most people thaw them before feeding.
Fresh live foods can range from earthworms to mosquitoes. Many people catch mosquito worms for their fish, but that's optional Smiley

Vegetables and fruit
I reckon you know what a cucumber looks like, so I won't put any pic here Wink Vegetables you can feed your fish are pretty much everything you can eat! Just be sure there's no salt or spices included!
Peas are most common, where they are bought frozen, but are thawed in room temperature and finally popped out of their shells before given to the fish. For smaller fish you can cut the pea-halves even smaller Smiley
Other vegetables readily accepted are cucumber, lettuce, zucchini, spinach, boiled carrot, broccoli, corn...
You can feed them fruit from time to time to give them extra C-vitamin Smiley But you need to be more careful with fruits as they foul the water easier than vegetables do. It's best to feed them fruit the same day as you'll perform a water change.
Fruits that you can feed: Oranges (only the pulp!!), banana, water melon, strawberries... again, almost anything goes as long as your fish can eat it without any bigger problems.

As treat there are many interesting foods available, I've got some dried seaweed for my fish that I give them about once a week, they love it Smiley And it's much better option than letting them destroy my plants! xD

HOPE THAT WILL HELP! Grin
« Last Edit: October 08, 2010, 10:32:09 AM by Nossie » Logged
Hanna
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2010, 07:43:01 AM »

Nossie this is a great, great article about foods, congrats, this is another karma, lol Wink
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Nossie
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2010, 11:27:39 AM »

Thanks Wink
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Summer Time
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2010, 08:01:30 PM »

Wow!  You both have really enlightened me!  This is very thorough and helps a lot.  I can't believe that this is something so fundamental, and that I was not aware of it, and most people are not aware of it.

Not only will the fish be less bored, so will we.  I'm looking forward to stocking up on some of this stuff, but I know you said to SLOWLY introduce it into their diet.

After reading your posts, I bought some Aqueon Color Enhancing Goldfish Granules, and some frozen brine shrimp.  I asked the guy at Petsmart about soaking the granules, and he said to hold the granules under the water for a short time to soak them, then let them drop.  So we will try that in the morning.

I also feel bad that I previously complained about Petsmart.  After looking at goldfish in various pet stores, etc. I have realized that Petsmart is an ok place (probably depends on the management of each one), and they are trying their best.  They have some nice quality goldfish, whereas the smaller pet stores around here only sell feeder goldfish.

Karma for both of you Smiley

P.S.  I'd rather see a picture of a cucumber, than a bloodworm  Smiley
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Nossie
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2010, 02:50:48 AM »

I'm very glad to help Smiley
You don't need to slowly change the fishe's diet, that really won't matter Wink Just add a pea at some day in the week, and brine shrimp on two others or something, and after that, just feed it what you feel like, he'll be very grateful for the variety of foods Smiley And thank you by being healthier, more active and live longer! Cheesy
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Andrea
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2010, 06:45:29 AM »

I fed Sunshine frozen blood worms for the first time yesterday and well those things are disgusting! So gross, made me feel a little sick Tongue Sunshine seemed to love them though.

That was some great information Nossie, you should write a book! I've been on the look out for some of that dry food for awhile, need to keep looking cause I wanna get somefor when I get my fighting fish. But the goldfish would have some too of course Smiley
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Nossie
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2010, 10:34:51 AM »

Thanks! I was thinking for 5 seconds if it'd be a good idea for me to write a book about goldfish in my own languages since I haven't been able to find any... c: But I don't know how well they'd sell in that case d: lol d:

You can't find freeze-dried food around where you live? That's very strange, I'd say o_o Here they have only blood worms and tubifex from what I've seen, but it's something at least c: I'd love to feed some krill to my fish though! That's naturally color enhancing and really healthy Smiley
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Summer Time
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2010, 07:39:12 PM »

This is all great information.  I have printed it and put it into my goldfish folder that I've been keeping; not much in there yet.

My daughter's fish is doing well, and I think he enjoyed the goldfish granules (which are really small pellets).  Do you think it would be ok to still feed him flakes sometimes, or would that just cause the swim bladder problem again (he's 3")?

I'm still not comfortable feeding the granules to my fish.  I gave him 2 this morning, and soaked them for 10 minutes first.  He ate them, but always looks so FULL afterwards, like he stands still and chews it forever.  He's 2", so maybe he's still too little for these things.

The Petsmart by me has so many different kinds of food.  I'm going to buy those goldfish CRISPS tomorrow and feed them some of those, they look like fun.

I read on another post about Hanna's fish ball - with 5 heads, 5 tail fins, etc.  Brings a very funny image to mind Smiley



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Hanna
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2010, 09:47:04 PM »

Thank you Summertime.

Of course you can continue feeding flakes, nothing wrong with them Wink as mentioned before, the main thing is they get different sorts of flakes, pellets, crisps etc.

I soak those pellets/granules in garlic guard before feeding them. They go nuts about it, they love the garlic smell  Tongue   Roll Eyes  Tongue.... lucky fishies don't pass air like...  ... hahahahaha .... apart from joking... hahaha...   garlic guard is healthy too and keeps bacterial infections down
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Andrea
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2010, 10:41:37 PM »

When I first got Sunshine she was teeny tiny and I already had a fantail who I was feeding sinking pellets because he had a swim bladder problem, so I naturally just continued feeding them the pellets. Well Sunshine would gobble them down and chew them for ages, then vomit them up!! It was quite freaky to see but she would vomit them up and then chase after them and eat them again.

I notice she does the same thing when I fed her new foods sometimes or ones she is not that keen on, so maybe it is just a matter of your fish getting use to these new granules.

Hmm maybe I'll try the other fish shop we have. I bet they have some at the pet shop in this shopping centre, but that was the place where I saw the goldfish being eating alive (well pretty much dying) and they didn't even care  Undecided I think I told you that story before so I pretty much refuse to buy anything from there!
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Summer Time
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2010, 10:42:43 AM »

Hi.  I fed the frozen brine shrimp today.  What a wonderful product! 

I fed 1/4 cube to each fish, and everyone loved it.  It's so easy and is not disgusting. 

Captain ate a couple, then chewed on them for a while, like hmmm, thinking that this is something different... then happily gobbled up the rest.  Smiley

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Summer Time
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Re: Swin Bladder Problem
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2010, 10:46:52 AM »

Has anyone heard of mysis shrimp?  Is that for goldfish?
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