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Author Topic: Odd poop  (Read 930 times)
ranchuandorandaluver
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Odd poop
« on: December 29, 2010, 09:41:08 PM »

My Lovebug was pooping about half an hour ago, and I noticed a VERY long clear string with a brown ball at the end of it. His poop looked a little mishapen (kinda jagged) and seemed darker than the usual. I have a 10 gal with him (oranda) and Ranchy (ranchu). I know they need a 20 gal at least, but they are pretty small now. I do 50% water changes every week and have a nice powerful filter, so they at least dont suffocate in their waste(like in a godawful bowl). Money's also pretty tight in my family, so we need to bend our bucks right now. I just tested the water and this is what I got:
PH-8.0 ppm
Alkalinity-300ppm
Hardness-300ppm
Nitrite-0ppm
Nitrate-20ppm
Ammonia-1.0 ppm
The ammonia concerns me. I use DeChlor and TetraAqua AquaSafe as conditioners. We live in a suburb of a city, but I think we have our own water supply,  it may be from the city. I heard the clear string might be parasites. Is this true? I'm a goldie newbie. The weird part is more visible in the 1st picture, but  it doesn't look like it does in real life.
Thanks so much! Smiley
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Andrea
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Re: Odd poop
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2010, 04:46:21 AM »

Unfortunately this poop is not a good sign but can easily be treated. It is most likely an internal parasites so if you are able look for some medicated food inteded to treat internal parasites. If you live in America you should be able to find this easily. You may also want to treat with some aquarium salt, just follow the instructions on the package Smiley

That is also really quite high ammonia, remember it should be at 0 and the higher your ph the worst the ammonia can be (and your ph is quite high). You are really going to have to look into getting a bigger tank, I know money is tough but if you already have the filter well all you need is the tank which you can find on ebay, craiglist, etc for way less than 100 dollars. Like I can't stress how cheap these tanks will be if you don't need a filter!

You'll have to do a couple of water changes, maybe one every second day or every day until you see NO ammonia! You need to do this asap or your fish will get sick. Also go get some beneficial bacteria, some brands are better than others but all are pretty good. They will eat your ammonia up. After treating with some very strong medication most of my good bacteria was killed off but by using stability by seachem for 7 days every day well I haven't see any ammonia or nitrites.

All this is very important and I know how much you love your fish so I hope you act on this. You will be able to find a cheap tank, as all you need is the actual tank which is cheap! Before you get that, you might have to do more regular water changes. Maybe two 50% water changes a week as in an established tank you should never ever be seeing ammonia especially that high.

Best of luck with finding the medication and tank Smiley
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Andrea
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Re: Odd poop
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2010, 04:50:19 AM »

I'm just assuming you are from America as you used gallons, sorry if you aren't Cheesy But after a quick search on ebay I have already found this (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.) And I bet you can find way cheaper just by searching for 'fish tanks'.
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Mindemae
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Re: Odd poop
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2010, 05:29:17 AM »

That 20 gallon is great if you live near enough to the seller since he will not ship it. Smiley
Anyway, the reason you are showing ammonia is because your fish are breathing.
75% of ammonia is excreted from a goldfish right through their gills when "breathing".  Only 25% ammonia is excreted through a fishes bodily waste.
So...you're fish are suffocating, the high ammonia is damaging their gills.
You need to do a big water change asap...at least 50% and you may have to do one every other day.
You not only need a filter that runs at least 100 gallons per hour on this tank but you also need extra aeration
by way of an air bubble wand, air stone, or my favorite, a diffuser.
You also need to put beneficial bacteria right into your filter media, double dose, pour right on.
Can you tell me what size filter you have and how many gallons per hour it will run?
What brand it is? etc.?
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Andrea
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Re: Odd poop
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2010, 05:33:05 AM »

That was just an example of the cheapness  Wink There is plenty of others and hopefully one near them Smiley
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Abbiesaurus
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Re: Odd poop
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2010, 05:33:51 AM »

Yeah definitely look on eBay for second hand tanks. As Andrea said you can easily get something for under $100! And a lot of the time people sell their filters, lights and other accessories along with the tank so you can get everything you need for a really good price.
Maybe some people on here who live in your country/state can suggest some other online auction sites or forums that sell tanks?
Good luck with the treatment of your fish! And keep us posted on how you go finding a new tank.
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Mindemae
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Re: Odd poop
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2010, 05:36:06 AM »

And yes, you will eventually need a bigger tank, but if money is tight right now and you are willing to do alot more water changes than once per week, you probably could keep your fish in the 10 gallon until you can afford to buy a larger one.
First thing is to get the ammonia taken care of then worry about the odd poo.  Your fishes odd poo could be from swimming in the high ammonia, it could be parasites, internal but very hard to tell really without looking at his poo under the micro-scope and actually identifying them. Smiley
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Andrea
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Re: Odd poop
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2010, 05:42:00 AM »

Should she still treat with the anti-biotic food? I thought so Minde, but I don't want to advise someone wrongly.

But yes sort everything out first, looking for the tank can come after all this is sorted. I'm just worried they are going to need one soon as I believe that ammonia is quite high and I was just explaining as she already has a good filter well all she needs is the tank which she could probably find for 50 bucks. I saw like a 10 gallon one at a charity shop for 15 dollars the other day!
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Mindemae
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Re: Odd poop
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2010, 05:59:42 AM »

She might think she has a good filter but it might be inadequate.
The thing is she needs to culture more beneficial bacteria in her filter media and increasing aeration will help do this too.
She may have a good filter but no extra aeration.
I wouldn't use a treatment until the ammonia is taken care of asap and then see if the fishes poo goes back to normal.
That's awfully high ammonia levels....which the fish will not survive long in. Undecided
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Andrea
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Re: Odd poop
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2010, 07:37:59 AM »

Well I hope it is adequate Smiley I didn't know that about aeration and good bacteria, I could write a book on all the things I've learnt on here Cheesy

Now we just need an update and hopefully they've done a water change.
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Nossie
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Re: Odd poop
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2010, 09:51:07 AM »

It might be good to buy some medicated food against intestinal parasites Smiley They should carry that in every pet shop since they do even here! Cheesy

So far the fish don't look like they are very sick, but you should really start acting already or you'll raise the risk of being too late with the treatment...
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Mindemae
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Re: Odd poop
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2010, 11:14:29 AM »

Andrea-
No aeration means less disolved oxygen in the tank.
Less disolved oxygen mean less good bacteria.
Bacteria like every other living creature, need oxygen to grow. Wink
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ranchuandorandaluver
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Re: Odd poop
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2010, 02:26:02 PM »

Thank you everybody for your help! Smiley
I did the 50% water change-ammonia is at .25. I called the pet store and they have no medicated food, but have the beneficial bacteria.
Minde- I have a Aqueon Aquarium Power Filter. It runs at 100 gallons per hour.
The tank is going to have to hold for a bit.  Undecided So I need a more powerful filter-like 200 gal per hour?
Tell me if this is correct:
I need-
Some form of aeration
More powerful filter
Medicated food
Beneficial bacteria for the filter
Eventually a 20 gallon tank
Karma for everyone who helped!
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 02:48:02 PM by ranchuandorandaluver » Logged
Mindemae
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Re: Odd poop
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2010, 02:44:18 PM »

I love the Aqueon filter, it is a powerful little filter.
It wouldn't hurt to upgrade to the 20 gallon Aqueon filter if you can afford to but adding extra aeration will help quite a bit and doing water changes everyday will also help.  Also, beneficial bacteria will hep adding it right to your filter media.
Personally, I would hold off on the medicated food until this ammonia thing gets under control.  Then if you still see a problem, then I would start feeding the parasite food by Jungle.  Everything you will need you can get at petsmart.  I'm not sure if petco carries the medicated parasite food.
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Hanna
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Re: Odd poop
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2010, 04:38:53 PM »

Sorry that I am on here so late.. ( just the darn flu... Angry )
Reading through this I agree with doing frequent waterchanges, more than once a week, testing, get Ammonia down to 0.
Maybe fasting the fish for 2-3 days, watch her poo.
Then feed peas, maybe smash a small piece of fresh garlic in it and mix the whole mash. Feed this for a few days.

If this doesn't improve her poo, then I'd swap to stronger meds
(Since I'm so devastated with Tailer... I try to keep away from meds overload... I know, we all meant the best... Cry )
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teetsymomo
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Re: Odd poop
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2010, 07:53:09 PM »

The other day, I fed my babies shrimp and their poop looked like that, but then the next poop and all others was normal again.
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Andrea
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Re: Odd poop
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2010, 12:36:15 AM »

I'm not an expert on filters but yours sounds pretty good. So wouldn't it best to hold off on getting the other filter and save up for the tank instead? Which would be much cheaper  Huh

For now I think you need to do the water changes till ammmonia is at zero, keep a close eye on water quality, do two water changes a week if necessary, buy airpump/airstone and maybe save up for a new bigger tank Smiley Some of those will be more long term goals of course  Wink

Keep an eye on nitrates too which may start to grow and may not be able to be lowered either. That is pretty much the sure sign you have to upgrade or if you keep seeing ammonia no matter what you do Smiley
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Nossie
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Re: Odd poop
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2010, 05:35:51 AM »

I agree with Andrea Smiley For now, if your tank is like, 10 gallons, the filter is perfect, so I'd rather work a bit harder for my fish and save the money for the tank! However, you'd have to upgrade the filter along with the tank later anyway. So here it's a pretty personal choice. Though, I wouldn't want too strong filtration in a small tank since fancy goldfish really don't enjoy too strong streams in their water.
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Abbiesaurus
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Re: Odd poop
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2010, 07:13:58 AM »

If I was you I would buy a new filter so you can put it in your current tank to let the beneficial bacteria build up Smiley
That way when you get your new tank its all ready to go and you don't have to wait for the new tank to cycle with a new filter.
A lot of people recommend buying a filter 2x the size of what your tank is so e.g. a 40 gallon filter for a 20 gallon...I'm not sure if this is 100% necessary but I read this a lot on the net!
If the filter strength seems to strong for your goldfish then you can always put things like filter wool or sponge on the outake and inside the filter to slow the pressure. Also some filters like Aquaclear power filters have a little switch to control the flow.

OR even better look online or in stores and try and find someone selling a tank with a good filter - this would work out much cheaper!
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Nossie
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Re: Odd poop
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2010, 11:08:54 AM »

Another way to calculate ideal filtration is by adding a filter that turns 10 times the tank volume or more, which already is there.
But buying a new filter now and exchanging the old one, would also bother the cycle, which is why I wouldn't do that at this point, I'd try to cycle the tank first.
Adding a new filter right after the tank has cycled would be stressful to the fish, and yet again start a mini-cycle. If you ask me, it's too risky Undecided
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Mindemae
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Re: Odd poop
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2010, 12:41:33 PM »

Another thing, Orandaandranchulover,
why are you using a de-chlor PLUS the Aqua Safe?  AquaSafe is a dechlor and has a great beneficial bacteria booster in it!
You only need the Aquasafe and it is very good with the Bio extract in it.
I used it in a tank of mine to cycle instantly and it worked marvelously.
If you go with a bigger filter, you could always use it when you have enough money for a bigger tank and also,
if you use the media from your existing filter in the new one with some plain old filter floss like abby says, it shouldn't be a problem with cycling.  Add one dose of the Aquasafe to your filter and 1 right into your water. Smiley
I usually use stresszyme but takes longer to cycle with that.  The AquaSafe has bio spira in it and cycles a tank alot faster!
Good choice on a great condtioner and bio product!! Smiley
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ranchuandorandaluver
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Re: Odd poop
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2010, 03:05:31 PM »

UPDATE-
Ammonia is at 0.2 ppm. I watched Lovebug poo and it looks regulated now.
Minde-I actually didn't know AquaSafe was a dechlor! I mean, it conditioned the water and blocked out heavy metals and such...you get the idea. I bought it kind of absently.  Wink
I'm going to the store later to buy an aerator and some more beneficial bacteria(in addition to the AquaSafe). And test kits. Been using mine like crazy!  Smiley
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Mindemae
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Re: Odd poop
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2010, 03:32:19 PM »

Have you done a water change? if yous till are presenting ammonia in your tank please do another 50% water change asap!!
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ranchuandorandaluver
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Re: Odd poop
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2010, 05:41:12 PM »

Will do!
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Hanna
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Re: Odd poop
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2010, 08:05:27 PM »

Waterchange is the MOST important, before you buy another filter, etc.
WATERCHANGE TO GET AMMONIA DOWN.

You tested 0.2ppm. Why no waterchange straight away ?  Huh .. and then of course go and get your tests and beneficial bacteria.
This is priority.

In our hobby it is most important to get priorities right.
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ranchuandorandaluver
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Re: Odd poop
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2010, 11:13:39 PM »

Sorry... Embarrassed I changed it that morning, and that is when I got the results.
I'm new to all this. I feel like a horrible fish owner.
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Hanna
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Re: Odd poop
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2010, 11:29:11 PM »

No, you are not a horrible fishowner... otherwise you won't be on here.
I only wanna emphasize that getting Ammonia down is priority No1 straight away followed by regular testing and acting accordingly.
It is also helpful to feed less until your tank is cycled and stabilized.

And to get it there asap you need to add beneficial bacteria to the filter media, it also doesn't hurt to put them into the water and this every day for at least one week. Water is pumped through the filter, so they will settle there
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Andrea
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Re: Odd poop
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2011, 12:05:33 AM »

Sounds like you are on the right track which makes very happy Smiley I'm glad you are going to go buy the beneficial bacteria and have already been able to lower your ammonia. Just remember if you test your water straight after doing a water change your results may not be accurate, I normally like to wait 24 hours. So if you did the water change today, test your water again tomorrow and if there is any ammonia present well do another water change Smiley
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Nossie
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Re: Odd poop
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2011, 05:50:25 AM »

In case you're interested, I used an awesome water conditioner when I cycled my two tanks after moving Smiley (I had one of them completely stripped down for a couple of months and the second one brand new) It's a conditioner + bio filter media by Easylife called "fluid bio filter media", this conditioner also prevents the fish from getting sick if they already have slight infections, it helps heal smaller wounds and tears in the fins, should this ever happen to your fish during cycling Smiley
I introduced the first six fish already after two days, testing the ammonia and nitrite every day for two weeks... and I realized it was already cycled after 12 days Wink And the ammonia wasn't higher than 0.25 most of the times since I changed water whenever it reached that level. (Do note that my tank is 83+ gallons)
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