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Author Topic: Tanks for goldfish  (Read 3773 times)
Skwishee
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Tanks for goldfish
« on: September 11, 2011, 04:55:52 AM »

Hi guys, as some of you already know I'm on the search for a big tank.

I was considering getting a juwel (180L if I can) but the shop near me that supplies them have hefty price tags.

I'm thinking of getting a second hand one, so does anyone know any good sites to look for those? Or would it be worth asking at my aquarium shop if they know anyone?
And also with heaters, in tanks such as juwel they're pre-built in I believe, is it possible to have the heater switched off?
Or would a heater be good for the goldfish?

I currently have Lucky the common goldfish and I'm thinking of later buying 2 more a shibunkin or a yellow comet (of course this is much later down the road when the tanks brought, cycled, Luckys settled in and then introducing one fish at a time).

Thanks guys!
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keo1463
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2011, 05:09:54 AM »

ebay or gumtree if not im sure someone on here would have one and willing to swap or sell  Cheesy
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Skwishee
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2011, 05:13:27 AM »

Yeah I found a lovely 200L one on gumtree, but the guys selling it along with the fish Undecided And its collection only, so I'm not sure how taking a 200L on a train/bus home would work XD

Ebay has some good deals, but no one in my area so far....
« Last Edit: September 11, 2011, 08:48:01 AM by Skwishee » Logged
Nossie
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2011, 01:55:47 PM »

It happens around here that the pet shops accept second hand tanks and sell them for great prices Smiley I don't usually look online for tanks though, so I can't really help in that area... :/

In any case, check newspapers, google some second hand shopping pages (we have a few of those around here that regularly sell tanks and other supplies), ask around at pet shops etc... I wish you best of luck!! Smiley
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Skwishee
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2011, 04:20:36 AM »

An exciting update with tanks... I've been pretty fortunate as it turns out my parents have an empty tank (that did have tropical fish) that they aren't using and its around 125 litres (90cm length/31cm wide/45cm height) Grin So that will buy more time with waiting for a suitable second hand tank to come up.

I'm just worried Lucky will get lonely being by himself Embarrassed
Would the tank be able to have two goldfish? (Maybe 3? Don't want to push it mind!)

From what you guys taught me before Smiley You need to have 20 gallons for the first fish and 10 gallons for each additional fish... 30 imperial gallons = 130 litres/30 US gallons = 113 litres.

So it should be okay?  Huh
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 09:20:42 AM by Skwishee » Logged
Nossie
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2011, 02:00:25 PM »

Think 40 liters per fish, you can fit three goldfish in there Smiley But take it easy!!
I'd put just one more besides Lucky for starters Smiley Get yourself a test kit and monitor the ammonia every single day, or change out 50% every second day while the tank cycles.

How powerful is the filter for the tank??
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Skwishee
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2011, 02:17:38 AM »

Yeah I was thinking of letting Lucky settle in first (after the tanks cycled), then after a week or two get another fish, let that one settle in and see how he gets on with lucky, then after another few weeks get the third and final fish Cheesy
I just need to get the tank here Wink

I think I'll possibly change the water, but get a test kit anyway Smiley What type would you reccomend? As I've heard of there being strips, liquid tests etc etc.

As for the filter, I don't know, it was something I was concerned about as it was used with tropical fish, so I imagine I'd have to get new media for it? But then again I don't know if the correct fitting media would be available. My dad had this tank set up when I was a kid (quite a whiiile ago) so it could be that its not in stock anymore. I'll go and find out and get back to you on that one....
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Nossie
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2011, 03:36:51 AM »

Cycling the tank will take at least a month, so if you're intending to cycle it with fish, don't add any more for the first month!

Liquid tests are by far the best Smiley They last longer and are much more accurate than test strips Smiley So remember: Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and pH!

For three goldfish in this tank, you'd need a filter that pumps about 1500 liters/hour. OR that is rated for a 300 liter tank Smiley
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fantailer
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2011, 06:29:34 AM »

Yeah mine took nearly 2 months!
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Skwishee
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2011, 08:41:29 AM »

Wow 2 months! That's a lot of patience fantailer!

I'm not sure about having Lucky in the tank while it cycles, not after what happened to Star (the goldfish I had with Lucky who is now in the big pond in the sky) I'd rather not risk it Lips sealed

He will have to do make do in his current tank for a little while longer, just until I get the tank here and have it set up right.

Also once I have the tank set up, with the filter (I'm waiting for my dad to get back to me on its size), doing weekly water changes of 25%, will I need to do anything else to keep the water clean?
I have been using this stuff called 'Fish Safe' in between water changes, as it supposedly stops the fish from getting diseases and kills anything toxic in the water (mind you this is the stuff with the crazy pamphlet). But in the larger tank with a decent filter, will I still need to carry on using it? Do you guys find you need to add anything?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2011, 08:45:59 AM by Skwishee » Logged
Dragonii
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2011, 08:57:32 AM »

This is why you should join an aquarium club in your area.

You can cut the cycle time down so much if you seed a tank from an established one. When I set up my 150 I didn't have any other tanks, so one of the guys in the local club that I belong to gave me a few pounds of his established substrate, then another guy gave me a few small fish that he had. The bacteria in the substrate was enough to handle the fish load that I added. Then as I added fish the bacteria culture grew with it. There never was a true "cycle" to speak of. I tested it twice a week and added the new fish slowly. It was the easiest tank start up that I have ever had.
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Nossie
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2011, 11:24:12 AM »

A 25% water change in a goldfish tank is ridiculous, that won't make even a bit of a difference! Every week you'll need to take out 50-75%. That's how fast the nitrates build up.

When I cycled my 317L, it took me a week. I used the gravel from the 40 liter (Which was barely anything once it landed in the large tank... xD), and added "fluid filter media" by Easylife. I definitely recommend that product, so if you can find it anywhere, get yourself a giant bottle of that Smiley I use it every once in a while in the tank, and always when I clean out both filters or if the fish have torn fins or are acting up somehow. Anything that has beneficial bacteria in a bottle will work, probably not as well, but you know, it'll get the job done!

Oh, about cleaning the filters, be sure that you NEVER clean them in tap water! Always rinse it in water that you took from the tank, this is why it's good to have 2-3 buckets only for the tank Smiley

Later when the bigger tank is cycled and Lucky has moved in, I'd suggest keeping the current one going so you could quarantine the new fish there, just in case. You wouldn't want any parasites or anything else terrible introduced to the new tank when you've worked so hard!
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Skwishee
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2011, 04:15:54 PM »

Thanks Nossie, I didn't know that about the water change, 50-75% is gonna be fun! I think I'll need a bigger bucket...

Yeah, thanks for the tip with the filter, what I've been doing is cleaning mine weekly the same time I do the water change. So when one bucket is filled, I clean it in that before I throw the water away. Also how do you know when to replace the media? I know you should cut the blocks in half and do half at a time because of the bacteria, but should they be changed once a month? Or just when they lose their shape?

Quaranteening is a great idea! Would a week per fish suffice? I'm also going to take note of a thread I saw around here on what to look out for when buying fish to make sure their healthy and my local aquarium has some nice looking shubunkin and yellow comets that I'm thinking of getting Smiley

Thanks Dragonii! I'll be sure to look around, I might ask in my local aquarium shop when I next pop down there. I imagine the owner must know a few good fish keepers!

Thanks guys ^_^ I really appreciate you all answering my endless questions! Cheesy
« Last Edit: September 13, 2011, 04:30:58 PM by Skwishee » Logged
fantailer
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2011, 05:57:07 PM »

Yeah it was pretty annoying waiting for the tank to finish. Orbitz and Titan where in the 10 gallon. I was so happy one day I tested and the parameter were way into safe mode Smiley. Orbitz and Titan enjoyed their tank and still are! Cheesy
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Skwishee
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2011, 02:47:50 AM »

Yeah I'm looking forward to putting Lucky into the bigger tank  Smiley His going to have so much space! And grow nice and big Cheesy

Just gotta get the tank here as soon as I can!

I'm also hoping that using my dads gravel and my own from Lucky's current tank might help with the cycling Smiley
 
« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 03:39:54 AM by Skwishee » Logged
Nossie
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2011, 04:07:03 AM »

Not a bigger bucket, but more buckets! Cheesy However, a 125 liter tank is tiny in the end Wink I use to take out 200+ liters out of mine, meaning that I carry buckets around 40 times before it's filled again Wink (I know I need one of them hoses you attach to the tap... D': )

If it's sponge media, I usually change it when it gets sort of soft and loses the firmness. I'd say leave 2-3 months between changing it maybe? I've had the same for a year in my internal filter now, but it's starting to get a bit floppy by now Tongue

When it comes to quarantining, I usually quarantine my new fish for three weeks, with the water treated with salt (against parasites) and feeding them with medicated food against bacterial infections (if they show signs of any such disease), or live foods and vegetables Smiley Make sure that you take good care of any new fish since moving is a very traumatic experience.

Your dad's gravel means... the gravel that has been kept dry in a box/bag/jar until now? There won't be any live bacteria left in it unless he kept it moist during the time the tank was torn down Smiley But if you'd take some of the water (do a big water change in the current tank) and move that into the big one, you get a little bit of dirt in there for the bacteria to work with, hence starting the cycle Smiley If you'd sneak out the gravel from he little tank, that would help too, and your fish would probably be just fine without it for a while!
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Skwishee
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2011, 04:53:05 AM »

My dads tank (the last time I saw it) still had water in and I don't think his emptied it. As I mentioned earlier my dad had the tank running when I was a kid and its only recently his stopped with it. But I might use clean gravel just in case.

Also is it any specific kind of salt I need to get? I can't imagine it being okay to just throw some table salt in there XD
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fantailer
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2011, 05:48:16 AM »

Aquarium Salt. Like it will be labled goldfish so its good for freshwater fish. I know it sounds wacky but Ive got some. Tongue
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2011, 10:55:06 AM »

Surprisingly enough, table salt is what many people use for their goldfish. Of course, it must be the non-iodized kind, but this is very easy to find at your local grocery store. I used a non-iodized natural sea salt, and it has worked great for me for many years.

You are more than welcome to purchased the special aquarium salt that fantailer mentioned, however it tends to be a bit more expensive and is pretty much the same thing as the kind I use.  Smiley

When you add salt to a tank, it is a good idea to pre-disolve it in a 1/4 cup of tank water. Stir it for a few minutes, then slowly pour it around the entire tank. If you just dump a bunch of salt in one place in the tank, it can be a bit stressful for the fish. They don't like the grains sticking to their slime coat very much I've noticed. The same thing is recommended to do for Epsom salts as well, if you ever need to use those for any kind of internal problem, which hopefully you won't have.  Wink

Glad to hear you are getting Lucky a nice tank!  Smiley

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Skwishee
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2011, 02:59:32 AM »

Thanks Goldie girl, I'll look out for it Smiley What ratio of salt to water would I need?

Also if I was to get a filter of 1500lph or one suitable for a 300L tank, am I right in thinking if I get an external one, I won't need an internal filter? And if I upgraded my tank at a later date to say 180L/200L would the filter be fine for those tanks as well?
Not sure what type I'm getting yet, though... I want to get an external filter, but not sure if I'd have room for it on top of the surface, or if the hose would be long enough to reach the floor and I have it there.
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Nossie
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2011, 04:15:12 AM »

External filters rule Grin
It's better in every way than getting some small internal filter that would get messy right away Wink Goldfish need as much biological filtration as possible, and that's what an external filter will provide Smiley
You can always buy extra hoses if it's too short. Just measure how long it needs to be and run away to the pet shop and buy some longer ones! No problems! (Keep the shorter one as a spare though, later you might have a different stand for the tank or something Smiley)
I'd say the filter would be okay in a bigger tank later, but then you should open it up every month to see if it gets dirty too fast! If that's the case, a little internal filter will help a lot! (I have two filters as well, as you may already know)
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Skwishee
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2011, 07:41:38 AM »

Well I know what to ask Santa for christmas then! Tongue An external filter please!
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2011, 09:46:55 AM »

Quote
Thanks Goldie girl, I'll look out for it  What ratio of salt to water would I need?


3 tablespoons of salt for every 10 gallons. It is also recommended to pre-disolve the salt in a cup of tank water as well, then you can pour it around the aquarium (slowly) without stressing your fish.
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Dragonii
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2011, 11:36:03 AM »

I've never bothered dissolving it in water first. Rock salt dissolves slowly and if you ask me it would be a slower more gentle addition if you just pour it in and let it melt on its own. What we did at the pet stores was put the salt in a cup and then sit the cup in the tank. It dissolves slowly so the level of salt doesn't increase too quickly.
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Nossie
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2011, 12:40:33 PM »

The salt crystals can stick to fishes' skin and irritate them :/
It can also burn them if it's not dissolved before it's put in the tank.
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Skwishee
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2011, 11:14:13 AM »

Salt burning fish? I never knew it could do that....

Quick filter question, I was looking around today, I saw an internal filter that does 1000 lph, I know you mentioned 1500lph would be ideal, but if I can find suitable media for my dads old filter (when it needs replacing) -and this may sound crazy- but could I have two internal filters?

My dad hasn't told me the size of his filter yet, but considering he had tropical fish in there, it must be suitable for the tank size. So whatever a filter for a 125 litre tank is capable of?

I saw some nice external filters, but my goodness they are massive! I had no idea they were so big.

I was just thinking two internal ones could work? Would it be better?
Not sure wether I'll definitley have two internals or an external and use my dads filter internally, just weighing up my options  Smiley

Thanks for all the help guys x
« Last Edit: September 18, 2011, 11:18:11 AM by Skwishee » Logged
fantailer
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2011, 11:45:06 AM »

Iwould get an Aqueon 30 gallon unless it has a huge waterfall into a tank. If it does get a Whisper 30 gallon.
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Nossie
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2011, 03:12:16 PM »

Freshwater fish aren't used to a salt concentration and their bodies aren't designed to deal with it either, so yes, they can be burnt (not like acid, but you get the point!).
For starters, one internal filter would probably be enough for one fish, but in the end, it would be easiest to just have one, giant filter that can handle all the dirt and then clean that once a month or so Smiley The choice is yours though! Two internal filters are fine! It would probably be best to place them next to each other though so that the current would go one way Smiley

Tropical fish need but a fraction of the filtration a goldfish needs so something for a 125 liter could probably filter at most a few hundred liters per hour or less even, but as I said, you can still use this filter alongside something else Smiley

My external filter is contains 6 liters of filter media, so it's about the size of a bucket, you can probably do with something a little smaller Wink Maybe the Eheim 2215? If they have that anywhere, do check it out!

It's always good to be thinking before hand! I mean, it wouldn't be that much fun if you'd get an expensive (or two expensive) filter and notice that it's not really working for you :/ So do think about the prices and everything before you choose which option would be better Smiley
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Skwishee
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2011, 03:48:01 PM »

Well I saw this Fluval 305 is an external filter doing 1000 lph and is suitable for tanks up to 300 litres, its quite pricey and if I was going to get a filter, I want to get one knowing I can use it again if I decide to upgrade the tank a little. The other filter I saw was an Interpret -Internal Power Filter and their biggest model the PF4 does 1000 lph as well and is half the price.

But I've not seen any Eheim brands around here. Will keep my eyes peeled!
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Nossie
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2011, 02:38:14 AM »

If the internal filter has the same strength, there's no reason not to get it! If that'll be cheaper in the long run, but if you'd have the external filter you could use that in a larger tank later and just get something to support it.

In any case, you've got plenty of time to look at/think about that Cheesy
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