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Author Topic: Tanks for goldfish  (Read 3796 times)
Dragonii
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2011, 10:56:07 AM »

Internal filters don't have nearly as much bio media as externals or canisters. Don't waste your money with the Fluval 305. They are a poor design. You can get better canisters cheaper. The Fluval 303 was a better design than that thing.

You can get 500 gph Odyssea canisters on Ebay for $60 that will filter the water better or Aquatop 500's that do 525 gph and have UV sterilizers on Amazon for $99. (I have one of these and love it).

Nossie, I hear what you are saying about the salt. I have never had a problem with it burning the fish myself. When I add salt to my tanks I just sprinkle it across the surface. It sinks to be bottom and fish lose interest by the time it gets there.
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Skwishee
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2011, 03:44:13 PM »

Thanks for the tip dragonii! I'll see what other filters I can find, there doesn't seem to be much choice with regards to different brands around here, maybe the aquarium shop will have more, I've yet to go there asking about filters.

Will also check out Amazon Wink

Thanks guys! xx
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Nossie
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2011, 04:22:42 PM »

Dragonii:: The salt thing might even be a myth! I honestly never tried because, why risk it? I mean, some people have noticed their fish getting some pieces stuck to them (I think Goldiegirl mentioned something like that?), but there are also some goldfish keepers that go with bare bottom tanks because they have the idea that the fish are gonna choke Wink Never happened to me and my gravel is pretty uneven but smooth in shape and size. (Other fanatics don't want to feed ANY fresh vegetables or live foods to their goldfish because of contamination risks... lol.)
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Dragonii
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2011, 04:51:09 PM »

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Thanks for the tip dragonii! I'll see what other filters I can find, there doesn't seem to be much choice with regards to different brands around here, maybe the aquarium shop will have more, I've yet to go there asking about filters.

Will also check out Amazon Wink

Thanks guys! xx


The Aquatops are a very good deal. A lot of the guys in our local aquarium club have started using them. Even my buddy Ken who breeds rare African cichlids in his garage. He has about 40 tanks. lol   He is the one that turned me on to them. So replaced my old Eheim 2217 with one and I will say, it is a work horse and for under $100 it can't be beat.
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Skwishee
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2011, 05:30:01 AM »

That external filter you showed is suitable for 125 gallons, thats over 500 litres Shocked That filter would certainly last an upgrade or two  Wink it would be perfect....

But I can't find it on the UK version of amazon Undecided

This is the internal filter I mentioned before (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)
Can't believe it's half price on amazon!

Other ones that look interesting would be these;
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They are all much cheaper than fluval.... What do you guys reckon?
« Last Edit: September 22, 2011, 05:52:41 AM by Skwishee » Logged
Dragonii
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2011, 09:42:20 AM »

Those two white ones that you found are the same as the Aquatop. They may be different in size so go based on water flow. The large one has 4 media baskets where the smaller ones have three.

But they are the same. Just sold under a different name. Before you could get them in the US as Aquatop they were called SunSun. Either way, the truth behind them is that they are clones of more expensive brands. Like that green one that you found, it looks like an Eheim. lol
The white ones you found will turn 364 GPH.

This one is the UK equivalent of what I have.
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Exact same thing.

You will find that it has a lot of empty space in it for you to your own media.
I filled in the empty space with these.
[image]

You can get them 6 for a dollar here in the dollar stores. They have plenty of surface area to grow bacteria on. Just make sure not to get the ones with the little metal ring to hold then together. But the cheap ones usually just have the same kind of plastic string holding them.

As for that PF4, don't bother.
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Nossie
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2011, 10:16:13 AM »

As usual, I agree with Dragonii Smiley The PF4 filter is pretty small so it won't have much space for filter media, which is one of the most important things when keeping goldfish.
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2011, 10:20:43 AM »

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Dragonii:: The salt thing might even be a myth! I honestly never tried because, why risk it? I mean, some people have noticed their fish getting some pieces stuck to them (I think Goldiegirl mentioned something like that?), but there are also some goldfish keepers that go with bare bottom tanks because they have the idea that the fish are gonna choke Wink Never happened to me and my gravel is pretty uneven but smooth in shape and size. (Other fanatics don't want to feed ANY fresh vegetables or live foods to their goldfish because of contamination risks... lol.)

Yes, it may be a myth about salt burning the goldfish, but I have noticed they get irritated a bit when salt is just poured into the tank undisolved. The granuals stick to their slime coat and they try to shake it off unsucessfully. That's why I've found they seem less stressed when I pre-disolve the salt first, but hey that's just me.  Smiley
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Nossie
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2011, 10:35:06 AM »

As I mentioned, I'd rather not take the risk, I mean not only did you notice it happening, but it's also mentioned in lots of books! Pretty much all of those I have suggest dissolving the salt first Smiley
I also have a feeling that it will spread better in the water if dissolved and then poured by the filter outtake.
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Skwishee
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2011, 01:34:35 PM »

Ahh okay  Cheesy I won't bother with the PF4 anyway, as amazon has external filters that are around the same price as the PF4 was in the shops, but cheaper than the crazy big Fluval!

I'm a little wary about buying things from random sellers on amazon (especially when they don't get good reviews XD) but I'm thinking to get one of these;
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(Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)  -or get the 2000L/H version which is only 10 extra

Also what's the purpose of having UV in filters?
I think I'll research the products a bit more, maybe pop down to the aquarium shop on Saturday and ask what they have in stock too. Thanks for the help guys. Making my own filter media sounds quite intriguing (a money saver no doubt!) is it stuff that would eventually need replacing, or just clean it out and pop it back in?

I'm hoping that with christmas coming up, I'll be able to afford a nice decent filter from the get-go that will last me many years and tanks!
Thanks! x
« Last Edit: September 22, 2011, 01:40:26 PM by Skwishee » Logged
Dragonii
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2011, 04:09:59 PM »

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That's the big one being sold by All Pond Solutions, they seem to have pretty good reviews.

UV sterilizers kill things like parasites and algae spores. It's a bulb that puts out UV light and it passes the water over it. Pretty simple. They should be replaced every 9 months if used constantly. I turn mine on for a few days after I do a water change, other wise it stays off.

The pot scrubber don't have to be changed. They just grow bacteria. You just rinse them off in some tank water that you drained into a bucket and then put them back in. Don't use tap water as it will kill the bacteria. Same thing goes for the black bio balls and the bag of white tubes.

There are plenty of good filters out there, but be careful in choosing. Some require that you buy expensive replacement media all the time. Some look fancy but don't do a very good job.

Dollar for dollar, I don't think you will find anything that has what that big white one has. I have spent several years working in aquarium/pet stores and I have kept fish for 20 years, everything form goldfish to delicate salt water angels and corals. I ran my own business doing aquarium maintenance for three years and I have used, maintained and cleaned everything from air powered sponge filters to a 3000 gallon system that was powered by a bank of Jacuzzi pumps and had a fluidized bed filter big enough to stand in... I have owned/maintained canisters by Fluval, Ehein, Penn Plax, Marineland, Aquarium Pharmaceuticals and Hydor (to name a few)... and the big white one has been my favorite so far. It is powerful, has plenty of room in it, includes UV sterilization, has quick connects, a prime system, thick strong hoses and a surface skimmer.

 I trust it to run my 150 African cichlid tank...
[image]

And I have about $800 worth of fish in that tank.



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Nossie
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2011, 02:24:49 AM »

Skwishee: UV sterilizers are commonly used in ponds, like Dragonii said, they kill off parasites and algae which can be harder to control in a pond since they can more easily enter the system.
I don't know if that's just me, but I wouldn't use it in a tank because I think they're pretty expensive in the long run and because it would be a bit of a waste (they're also hard to get around here). As long as one keeps up the water changes and quarantine every fish and plant to be added for 3 weeks, there won't be parasite outbreaks.
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Skwishee
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #42 on: September 23, 2011, 04:05:48 AM »

Thanks for the info guys.

If a UV isn't hugely necessary then like Dragonii I could always keep it switched off? Plus I imagine the 2000 L/H one will last a good while!

I'll hopefully pop down to the aquarium shop tomorrow, so I'll ask them what external filters they have in stock too Smiley

Also with regards to quarantine tanks, the only tank I could possibly use is my 21 litre, will that be okay? I imagine if the new shubunkin I get is a little one it'll be okay for 3 weeks and plants will be fine. (But what to do when their bigger if something was to happen?)
Good to hear that with good maintenance there won't be a parasite out break. How do goldfish get diseases? Is it just when something new is introduced to the aquarium? Or if the water quality is poor?

[Quick edit]

One other question that has just occurred to me, with putting the aquarium some place when my parents bring it here, I know putting it in front of a window is generally a bad idea, but I'm not sure the tank will fit on top of my drawers, if this is the case, is there a 'safe distance' for a tank to be away from a window? I usually have my curtains drawn 24/7 anyway because my bedrooms on the ground floor (plus the curtains being white, it lets a lot of light in anyway) so the tank wouldn't get direct sun light, but I'm more aware of the temperature changes it could bring, my dads tank does have a heater, so would that be enough to counter act it?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2011, 05:22:55 AM by Skwishee » Logged
Nossie
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #43 on: September 23, 2011, 05:22:24 AM »

You can use the 21 liter for new fish now, possibly sell it later and buy yourself a 40-50 liter, that would make a perfect quarantine system Smiley

Goldfish will usually get sick when they're stressed. They're constantly being attacked by bacteria and all kinds of infections, just like us, but their immune system will easily fight it off as long as they are kept in good conditions (regular, large water changes and filtration) and fed a good diet (vegetables, live foods and nutritious pellets as staple). The fish will get sick if they get stressed, usually due to bad water quality which weakens their immune system, if they're kept in too small tanks, fed an inadequate diet or simply if you introduce a fish or plant from a tank that had sick or dead fish in it. Many people get ich outbreaks all the time due to new plants or fish.

If you keep the tank close to a window, it is of course more "prone" to temperature changes. If you keep the windows covered, that solves the sun/heat/algae problem, but not necessarily the draft/cold problem. Maybe it'd be an idea to ask for measurements of the tank and see if it would fit on your drawers? If not, it might be necessary to move some furniture Smiley
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Skwishee
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2011, 05:42:14 AM »

I've got the measurements, the tanks 90cm in length and the area that the chest of drawers is in, is only just 90cm/maybe 91cm, I'm not sure it will fit properly is all, I want to avoid any damage to the wall paper (as my property is rented). I guess I won't know until the tank gets here! If it doesn't fit I'll have to play tetris with the furniture Wink
Or I'm thinking it could go slightly in front of the fire place (which is empty and has been boarded up inside with just a  grill thing in it, never noticed any draught coming from it at all)
.
Also with regards to quarantine tanks, I read that buying a big plastic box from Staples (apparently the big ones can fit 40 litres), as long as it's one that's food safe, it's okay to use as a temp. tank? I'm considering keeping my small filter (which is suitable for up to 40 litres) running in the bigger tank, so if I did have an emergency, I'd have a ready cycled filter to go. Just not sure where I'd keep it?

I'm also a little worried that with Lucky being stressed with the tank cycling, that he'll get sick Sad
« Last Edit: September 23, 2011, 05:50:11 AM by Skwishee » Logged
Dragonii
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #45 on: September 23, 2011, 08:53:04 AM »

UV bulbs are only like $12. Like I said, I only use it for a couple of days after water changes or if I add a new fish, and the plan is to only turn it on for extended periods if the fish get sick. So the bulb should be good for 2 or 3 years easy with that kind of light use.

As for a quarantine tank, yes the plastic bins will work. People use those for sump filters all the time.
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Nossie
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #46 on: September 23, 2011, 12:34:43 PM »

Agreed Smiley It really doesn't matter if the "tank" is plastic or glass or whatever as long as it's safe for the fish Smiley

The risk is of course increased, but as long as you'll do your best he should be alright, or he won't get seriously sick at least. Maybe some fin rot or fungus at most.
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Skwishee
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #47 on: September 24, 2011, 09:40:19 AM »

I hope Lucky remains to be okay, do goldfish immune systems return to normal after a while? Or once it's weakened, it's weakened?

Also how do you make sure something is 'fish safe'?
I was looking at staples and saw things like this;
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Would I need to get a slightly bigger filter? As mine only goes up to 40 litres, I'm not sure it would be enough if a goldfish was in say a 42 litre box by itself? Would it manage okay for that temporary period if any quarantening was necessary?

As I mentioned earlier, am I right to think that having an internal filter on the main tank, would be okay to take it out if it was needed for a quarantine situation? I would of course have the external on the main tank as well, I'm just thinking with a little internal in there, just so the beneficial bacteria won't dissapear and the quarantine tank won't need to cycle.

I know I haven't even got the big tank or other goldfish yet XD I'm just thinking ahead, so I know what to get should a situation arise Smiley

[Edit]
Just found out from my parents, that the filter my dad has is broken, so looks like I can't use that one then!
« Last Edit: September 24, 2011, 10:46:18 AM by Skwishee » Logged
Dragonii
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #48 on: September 24, 2011, 10:59:59 AM »

Those containers should be fine. Just clean them good with bleache and water and let them sit with just plain water in them for about a week before using them.

As for dads filter, depending on what it is and what's wrong with it, the question is...would it be worth fixing?
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Skwishee
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #49 on: September 24, 2011, 11:33:56 AM »

Thanks Dragonii  Grin I'll be sure to pick one of those up from Staples in the future Smiley

Yeah I was thinking about fixing it, it could be kept in the main tank and then used for the quarantine tank when needed (as my external should be more than able to handle the tank by itself if I get a nice big one) as I imagine it must be pretty good if it managed the fish in the tank before. Plus I could just make my own media for it  Smiley

But when my parents say its broken, it's hard to know without looking at it. The filter itself must be over 10 years old though, so I'm not sure if it's the age? Or perhaps it's gotten clogged up?
« Last Edit: September 24, 2011, 11:39:27 AM by Skwishee » Logged
Nossie
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #50 on: September 24, 2011, 01:04:24 PM »

You know how your own immune system works, right? Wink You get a cold sometime, and then it passes, same deal for fish Smiley

Both of the boxes you linked to should be just fine for the fish, just make sure they don't have any tiny holes in them, some containers do (no idea why!).

I think it's a great idea with the filters! But as you said, it's hard to tell what could be wrong with the filter when all we know is "it's broken"... you could ask them to bring it anyway and have a look at it, post some pics and more detailed description of what exactly is wrong with it Smiley

As we mentioned in another thread, sometimes the sludge/algae dry up around the propeller, blocking the movement.
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Dragonii
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2011, 09:40:53 PM »

Yep, it could just need an impeller or a cheap O ring... you never know until you check it out. I used to get most of my filters as them being returns to our store or customers giving broken units. I would get something like a Magnum 350 canister and it just needed a new impeller or a Hydor canister that just needed a new main seal. That's part of why I have had experience with so many different models and brands.

I had something like a dozen tanks at one point... most running on second hand equipment.
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Skwishee
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #52 on: September 25, 2011, 06:35:41 AM »

It must have been awesome to have worked in aquarium stores Dragonii Smiley

I was thinking the impeller too, I've asked them to keep hold of it. I imagine it is just clogged, I'm not sure how often my dad would have cleaned it lately if there's no fish in the tank.

Thanks for all your help guys! I know what to do if/when I need quarantine tank and what kind of external filter to look out for ^_^
Now all I need is the tank! Still no word from my parents as to when they'll be able to bring it yet XD Fish keeping sure teaches a lot of patience! x
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Skwishee
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #53 on: September 26, 2011, 11:55:18 AM »

Well I found out today that my parents are going to bring the tank up to me, when they come to pick me up at Christmas Grin
Yay! Will let you guys know about Dad's filter then Cheesy
Thanks for all the help! x
« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 12:12:57 PM by Skwishee » Logged
Nossie
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #54 on: September 27, 2011, 01:59:09 AM »

Sweet! Cheesy
Yeah, like mentioned, post photos if you're unsure Smiley Other than that, I'd just give it a good scrubdown with a firm (old) toothbrush and sponge and make sure you get everything cleaned up Smiley
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Skwishee
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #55 on: September 27, 2011, 03:07:43 PM »

Well my dad bless him, has already told me he'll clean it, as by the sounds of it the tank has alot of algae.
I offered to clean it for him, but he said he wanted to give it to me in 'good nick'  Smiley

I just feel extremely lucky that his doing this all for me! Grin
Bring on Christmas! xx
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Nossie
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #56 on: September 28, 2011, 04:05:07 AM »

How sweet of him Smiley (Note, I like the word "sweet")
What are your plans for the tank?? What kind of pebbles, plants and decorations are you gonna have? Smiley Any woods? Smiley
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Skwishee
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #57 on: September 29, 2011, 03:37:56 AM »

I'm thinking a natural tank.
I imagine I can use the gravel that's in Lucky's tank and my dads gravel combined. I'd like to have some live plants, but need to look into getting some substrate and which plants will Lucky eat and which one's she'll leave.

Not to sure on decorations... I don't really go for the tacky castles, I'm thinking of getting a few bits of drift wood and having those with plants growing on them, maybe have plants on the driftwood instead of in the gravel? That's about as far as I've gotten XD

What do you think? x
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Nossie
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #58 on: September 29, 2011, 04:10:20 AM »

I have... everything mentioned above! Grin (NOT the tacky castle, that one's for my betta Tongue)
You can easily keep Java ferns with Lucky Smiley These plants taste so bitter that the goldfish won't eat them because of the unpleasant flavor Wink
They also have really strong roots so they would easily grow onto driftwood. You may need to tie them down with some transparent fishing line or similar thread at first for the roots to stick.
Color-wise, they're pretty dark green compared to pictures I show below, but it depends a little on the conditions they're placed in.

[image]


[image]


Next, you may want to try Anubias. These come in many different sizes and have strong, leathery leaves that the goldfish won't eat. They have strong roots like the java ferns (I had one that drilled it's roots through ceramics...) and can easily be attached to wood, with the same method I mentioned earlier Smiley

Pictures:
[image]


[image]


And finally, here are a few pictures of my setup with these plants and driftwood Smiley In the right corner of the tank there's a chunk of bogwood with Anubias and Java fern growing on it Smiley -> (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)
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Skwishee
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Re: Tanks for goldfish
« Reply #59 on: September 29, 2011, 04:24:01 AM »

OH yeah ^_^ I think plants on driftwood would be nice, I have plenty of invisible string from a crazy fish related project I did in college! I basically hung drawings of fish/sharks/whales etc in jars it was pretty fun ^_^ although everyone kept asking how I made the stuff at the bottom of the jar (I put some blue sand in there) and I was like.... it's sand... I brought it >.>
And people say I'm ditsy Roll Eyes

But yes plants on driftwood, I wouldn't have to worry about substrate too much, but I'm thinking maybe some grass type plants would be nice in the gravel anyway? If all the plants were up on driftwood, then I feel the gravel/bottom of the tank would be rather empty.

Google showed me some amazing tanks like this one:
[image]


I would love it if I could make my tank look like that! It would be like a garden for Lucky....
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