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Author Topic: under gravel filter  (Read 2443 times)
anne
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under gravel filter
« on: June 24, 2010, 03:42:16 PM »

im about to get a new tank twice the size of the one i have just now and im  gonna buy an under gravel filter,,,can any1 advise me on these filters,,,how do they sort out the amonia and nitrites and nitrates.
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Mindemae
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2010, 06:24:48 PM »

Personally I don't use them and I wouldn't recommend them.
Goldfish are just too messy for them!  
Some people really like them but I never have.
If you do get one, then it would probably in your fishes best interest if you get a powerhead for one of the tubes.
It will get rid of waste particles faster and bring more air bubbles to the surface faster.  It will be more powerful and work better with a powerhead than without one.
As far as ammonia, nitrites and nitrates...cycling is concerned, it works the same biologically as any other filter.
You'll have to perform the same tests, check levels, etc. and it will take about 1-2 months for the new tank to cycle properly.
As far as when the tank is cycled properly then your ammonia and nitrite levels will be zero.  The only way you can get rid of nitrates is through gravel vacuuming when you do the water changes on your aquarium and live plants will also absorb some nitrates. Smiley
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 06:32:04 PM by Mindemae » Logged
Hanna
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2010, 06:06:13 AM »

There are pros and cons for undergravel filters. UG filters are "old fashion" filters.
It is said that the current build up is not recommended, it also can disturb the growth of plant roots.
But pet stores use them in their tanks.

We do have an UG filter too in the AquaOne , the new "old" tank has one too with a powerhead.
I still vacuum the gravel but I do have the impression that it is not as dirty as it used to be without UG filter.
Towards the UG filter I use another one with activated carbon.

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Nossie
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2010, 07:14:51 AM »

I'd say that if you want a tank with goldfish, you need to combine the UG filter with a power filter of some kind, like Hanna does.
Because undergravel filters are rather meant for smaller tanks, and less messy fish. Like Hanna said, they may also disturb the growth of plants.

I personally would avoid it, because this filter won't really take care of the dirt the same way mechanical filtration does (as in, collecting debris so you can clean the filter media easily), but it sucks all the crap into the gravel, and it stays there. The risk for high nitrate values are a bit higher. And you need to vacuum the gravel real well everytime you change the water.

But how big is this tank you had in mind?
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creamkiller
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2010, 09:26:26 AM »

under gravel filters are the worse kind u can get. get get a power head filter (aqua clear is a good one) or a canister (they are more money) or a sump (more money and work. but they are the best) and i know some are going to say sumps are not for fresh water but it can be done.

 what ever u get make sure the filter moves 3 times the tank size per hour

so that means if u have a ten gallons tank your filter needs to move at least 30 gallons per hour. u can never have a filter to big but if u get one to small it could KILL YOUR FISH.

I had a aqua clear 100 on a  10 gallon tank one time it move more than 10 times my tank per hour that was a clean tank Cheesy
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Hanna
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2010, 03:58:56 AM »

creamkiller, I wouldn't say they are the WORST kind to get. They are old fashion filters, ALL petshops stilluse them.
There are pros and cons, as I mentioned before, but anyway, everybody's preference I'd say. Wink
I noticed that our gravel is much cleaner since I combine UG filter with carbon filter, not that much dirt coming out of the gravel when I siphon it. Wink
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Nossie
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2010, 04:52:05 AM »

creamkiller: I support Hanna on this one. UG filters are just fine to use in a smaller tank with smaller fish, it would be just enough to take care of their waste. But for a goldfish tank, it NEEDS to be combined with something else.

I think there's an easier way to tell people which strength of filter is needed... because it's usually mentioned on the package what size of tank it's meant for, and in this case, it's usual to have a filter that has at least twice the capacity as the tank it's meant for, so for a 10 gallon tank, you could have a filter that's meant for a 20 gallon, or more. Which I'm saying just for the lulz d:
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creamkiller
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2010, 01:14:09 PM »

yeah i know but i think that if u need 2 filters that mean your 1 filter is not good enough.

but 2 filter is good to have if 1 break u still have 1 left. but y not have 2 very good filters. u can never have to much filtering right.
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Hanna
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2010, 11:44:56 PM »

Sorry creamkiller, need to put this one - your understatement - into place:

We do NOT NEED 2 filters and we do NOT have 2 "not good enough filters"... we decided to have those 2 different types of filters, both excellent quality and high performance. ... even if the UG filter is an "old fashion" type of filtration... IT HELPS US TO KEEP THE GRAVEL CLEANER.
I mentioned this before: when I do the siphoning, I noticed LESS fishpoo and debris vacuuming out of the gravel.
I believe this sounds logical and is easy to understand, also it is PERSONAL PREFERENCE which type of filtration one uses.

I only agrre with one thing you said in your last post on here: that it is good to have 2 filters, in case one breakes there is still the other one working and you are not desperate in case you are not able to buy another one straight away because the shops are closed.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2010, 03:14:21 AM by Hanna » Logged
creamkiller
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2010, 08:09:46 AM »

OK  fine but do u agree on this

you need a filter that will move  5  times the amount of water in the tank per hour

so that means  if u have a 10 gallon tank the filter will need to move 50  gallons per hour at the least. and the more fish u have the higher the number is.
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Mindemae
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2010, 02:56:58 PM »

Most fish experts agree that just an undergravel system especially for goldfish is not enough and recommend another type of filtration system like the power filter along with a power head on one of the tubes of the UGF.
Goldfish produce more wastes and what I didn't like about the undergravel system is the parts would get full of algae and were harder to clean and replace, without disturbing the gravel bed and decorations and such AND they just weren't powerful enough for the wastes produced by the goldfish.  And the little filter heads and airstones have to be replaced too quite often.
Cream Killer yes, it is important to have enough GPH and even extra when keeping goldfish.
However, the type of filter/filters people wish to have in their tank is a personal preference.
I really think that the best is the canister filter but I do not have any in my tanks.
I guess if I were to get a 75 gallon tank someday, which I am thinking strongly of doing, I would invest in a fluval canister filter like Clab has for his tank.  IMO that is the best filtration system one can have for a larger tank for optimal performance. Smiley
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Hanna
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2010, 04:35:31 PM »

cramkiller, I NEVER disagreed with this, I prefer filters, like Nossie said before, if the filter is designed for a tank this size to get at least the filter next level up.

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Nossie
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2010, 03:31:13 AM »

creamkiller: No, just because you have two filters it doesn't mean that both of them are bad.
I've read, everywhere, that it's great to combine different filtration systems, like mechanical + biological or biological + chemical etc. in different forms, and again, ESPECIALLY FOR GOLDFISH.

For instance, I've got an 83 gallon tank, that's 1.30 meters long, and I am going to use both of my power filters to make the water flow as smoothly as possible. This tank would be 317 liters big, and my filters together will be pumping about 1550 liters of water per hour. In other words, here it's good to have two filters so the water will be spread all around this long abomination d:
And I, personally, think that this should be perfectly enough Grin (Even if I have plans on getting an external canister filter one day too... *cough*)
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creamkiller
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2010, 08:25:52 AM »

hi again

nossie

u have just enough GHP in that tank in my mind anyway.

but if u are worried that there is not much water flow i would say get 1 or 2 power heads ( for those that dont know its like a underwater fans) just make sure they are small ones gold fish are not strong swimmers.


on my 20 gallon tank my filter for it does 300 gph

on my 55 gallon tank the filter does 400gph

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creamkiller
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2010, 08:27:15 AM »

o buy the way u  ever want to get rid of that tank tell me Grin
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Nossie
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2010, 12:47:45 PM »

Hah, it'd be a royal pain to get it shipped to you in one piece! xD
But nee, I think I'll keep it for the rest of my life c: It's a pretty good size I'd say! Cheesy Not too big, and not even close to being too small!
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creamkiller
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2010, 09:58:07 AM »

MY DAD HAS A 125 GALLON I WANT
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Nossie
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2010, 02:40:33 PM »

That's liek... huge?! o_O How could he possibly have the space?

Anyway, maybe you'll have the opportunity one day to get something bigger Wink
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creamkiller
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2010, 04:57:27 PM »

A  200 would be nice

dad has a 125 and a 100 right below it it is cool

the 125 is about 4 feet long 2 feet deep and i think around 2 1/2 high Grin
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Nossie
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2010, 03:21:03 AM »

Sounds quite awesome! What kind of fish does he keep? Cheesy
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creamkiller
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2010, 07:13:14 PM »

 he only keeps koi some are over 2 1\2 feet he also has a 400 or 500 gallon in his shop in the winter but there is no glass to see the fish u can only look at the, from the top
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Nicole
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2010, 08:53:36 PM »

I saw an AMAZING tank setup that included several tanks linked by clear, water-filled tubes big enough for two fish to pass comfortably.  They called it a "fish highway".  It's probably a lot of hard work and exteremely expensive to set something like that up, but wouldn't it be cool?
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Nossie
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2010, 08:15:26 AM »

Nicole: Yeah, I've seen that too! It's a pretty fun idea Smiley But in the picture I saw the tubes were really long, so I'm just a little concerned about them fish getting stuck in them somehow :'D I've seen some other, smaller example of this where two pretty big hexagonal tanks were connected by two big tunnels! Cheesy There were tropical fish in it c: (If my memory serves me...)
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creamkiller
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2010, 01:00:32 PM »

yeah the fish highway is sweet

if u want to do somthing like that

get 2 20 gallon or 30 gallon tanks get them drilled like for a sump( bigger whole the better) go to your hardware store and find the right size piping and there u go a small version of it 
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Nossie
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2010, 04:51:45 PM »

Aww yea! Cheesy Might be tricky to find some nice transparent pipes though, don't you think? o_O At least I haven't seen them, and I've been working at a hardware store! xD
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creamkiller
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2010, 12:41:33 PM »

u might have to order a peice of arcilic that is what most have to do
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Nossie
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2010, 05:47:53 PM »

Yeah, that's how I imagined things c:
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creamkiller
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2010, 12:34:38 AM »

a round tanks are cool
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Hanna
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2010, 03:49:29 AM »

yeahhh... like some on those pics in "Tank Designs"  wow, sooo cool and luxurious
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creamkiller
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Re: under gravel filter
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2010, 08:49:31 AM »

can i thimk of what we all would do if we had money i would have a tank the length of one of my rooms and 3 feet deep and3 feet high what would u do
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