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Author Topic: Velvet - Please Help my daughter's fish  (Read 2136 times)
Summer Time
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Velvet - Please Help my daughter's fish
« on: October 23, 2010, 12:54:16 PM »

Can anyone help with my daughter's fish?  

This is the fish she has had for 5 years with no problems.  He is not swimming, and resting on the bottom in the back of the tank.

I added a new fish 1 week ago, that was very healthy and quarantined for 2 weeks.  This new fish had the tallest, straightest dorsal fin.  Now this fin is not always up.

I bought this new fish from the same store and tank as the fish that just died from Velvet.

Do you think this is the beginning of Velvet in her tank?

What can I do to save these 2 fish?

Should I take a picture and show you, since some of you have such a good eye?

There are 3-4 spots on his tail.  Does that mean I should put salt in the tank?

Thanks
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 07:40:26 PM by Summer Time » Logged
Summer Time
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Re: Help my daughter's fish!
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2010, 01:29:52 PM »

Water is ok, just in case this will help:

ammonia - 0

nitrates - 5
nitrites - 0

hardness - 150
alkalinity - 150
pH - 7.8
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Summer Time
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Re: Help my daughter's fish!
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2010, 01:46:16 PM »

The orange one is the fish she has had for 5 years.  He has black on the tips of his dorsal fin, and 2 fins on the bottom, but he has been like this for at least a couple months, and never seemed to bother him.  This may be from the small tank he was in before.  Not sure what they are, but his water quality has been really good since August.

He's always been kind of thin, but I'm hoping he'll put on a few pounds with this varied diet we're feeding now.

With all of your sharp eyes, maybe you can see something on these pictures?

I didn't use a flash, but if these are not clear enough, I can take another with a flash.

Thank you
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Hanna
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Re: Please Help my daughter's fish
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2010, 04:38:53 PM »

I can just see the black, it looks very tiny like a black line.
I don't think it is a burn from poorer waterquality as he has been having it now for a few months.
The other thing I notice id the reddish colour arround his gills. Was it always like this?

The water is perfect. As there are no other signs I would use Melafix as a tonic for a few days.
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April
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Re: Please Help my daughter's fish
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2010, 05:23:01 PM »

Hope your fish feel better soon ♥
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Summer Time
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Re: Please Help my daughter's fish
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2010, 06:22:18 PM »

Thanks for helping and the good wishes.  Yes, the black is a thin black line.  She said he had some black when she first got him but it went away.  I don't know if that was from burns, or his natural color at that time.

Here are 2 pictures from October 6 (about 1 week after his swim bladder problem), and the new fish.  I think his gills looked the same back then.

He no longer has a swim bladder problem, thanks to this forum  Smiley
« Last Edit: October 23, 2010, 06:41:30 PM by Summer Time » Logged
Summer Time
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Re: Please Help my daughter's fish
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2010, 06:41:06 PM »

I put in some Melafix.  Since it's being used as a tonic, do I need to remove the carbon from the filter?
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Hanna
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Re: Please Help my daughter's fish
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2010, 06:56:23 PM »

Yes please, remove it, otherwise it won't do anything Wink
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Summer Time
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Re: Please Help my daughter's fish
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2010, 07:21:45 PM »

OK, thanks!!
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Mindemae
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Re: Please Help my daughter's fish
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2010, 09:48:13 PM »

Ahh...The thin fish looks like it has been sick for awhile.  He doesn't look healthy at all and he has some bloody streaks on his tail which is septicema.
The second picture shows a fish that might have the beginnings of velvet.  Look at his tail too?  I see some yellowish stuff on his tail? Do you??
I would get out a magnifyer and look real close at both fish.
I would go get a antibiotic fish food and try feeding it to the fish.
Methylene blue would help with the septicemia.
But first please confirm what I see or am I seeing things? Smiley
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Summer Time
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Re: Please Help my daughter's fish
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2010, 10:12:01 PM »

The orange one's tail, if you are looking at the ends of his tail, I think they're just folded over, making it look darker than it is.

The white fish may have some yellowing, but Velvet is a parasite, isn't it?  Very possible that he has it, since the other fish I bought when I bought him, also had Velvet.  They were quarantined separately.

I have a magnifying glass, but it's not showing up anything else that I can't already see.

A few months ago, I helped my shubunkin get over septicemia, and I still have some leftover medicine to use, if needed.  It worked in only 2-3 days.

Once we determine how to treat them, should they be placed in separate tanks, and treated separately?

Do I need to add salt?  I know a lot of you recommended it in a previous thread of mine for Velvet.

So far I've only put in Melafix, and nothing else.

Thanks for helping   Smiley
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Mindemae
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Re: Please Help my daughter's fish
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2010, 10:28:17 PM »

Well for now I would treat with salt 1 TBS. per 5 gallons and add Melafix as bottle directs.  You can treat with Melafix for a week.
You said one fish had spots?  What kind of spots? And where are the spots?
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Summer Time
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Re: Please Help my daughter's fish
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2010, 10:42:15 PM »

The orange one has 3-4 on his tail, like the beginning of velvet.  The white fish does look a little yellowy.
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Mindemae
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Re: Please Help my daughter's fish
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2010, 04:08:28 AM »

Are you familiar with a progressive salt treatment?
I'm wondering if that one unhealthy fish might be too unhealthy to withstand medication.
Do you have a heater for your tank.
I would use a heater and a progressive salt treatment.
Use aquarium salt and put the heater in the tank let the heat rise slowly to 80 degrees.
Treat both fish in the aquarium they are in.
DAY ONE
Add one teaspoon of salt per gallon of water each morning and night.
DAY TWO
Add 1 teaspoon of salt per gallon of water in the morning again and then again at night.
(mix the salt with a little tank water and pour in)
on DAY THREE, check for improvement.
If there is no improvement add another teaspoon of salt per gallon in the am and then again at night.
DAY 3 4 5 6 7
Observe the fish for improvement.  On Day 8, 9 and 10 remove 50% of the water each day and replace with fresh.
This treatment is NOT a cure all but it does work well for removing Fungus, Ich, Velvet, Tail Rot, etc.
I would also feed an oral antibiotic fish food.  They have a product by Jungle which is great.  You can buy it at Petsmart.
You may add Melafix to the water for the 7 days of salt treatment. Smiley
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Nossie
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Re: Please Help my daughter's fish
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2010, 04:11:56 AM »

If you see those spots and are sure of it, add the salt right away, it'll help in this stage of the outbreak.
I can't see any veins in the tail, I think it's only how it looks in the photo, seems to be completely healthy fin rays to me d:

Since you don't have any plants in the tank, you can easily treat both fish at once, since I'm pretty sure they have the same problem Smiley Do like Mindemae suggested and feed them anti-bacterial food and add salt to the tank.

Those black lines are nothing to worry about, my Berry had some wounds on the tips of her fins where tissue was missing, and it showed as black lines around it as it was healing, she's perfectly fine now, and you can't even tell there ever were wounds there Smiley But it did take a few months before they disappeared completely, so this could be something similar, he might've gotten it from sometime pretty long ago but it just didn't heal yet.
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Hanna
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Re: Please Help my daughter's fish
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2010, 05:59:35 AM »

I declare Mindemae to be our FISH DOCTOR !

SummerTime, if you don't mind, Mindemae could use your pics and point out with arrows what she can see and re- post them on here?

I just can't see it, maybe because I don't know what I really should look for  Sad
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Summer Time
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Re: Please Help my daughter's fish
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2010, 08:48:14 AM »

I will start the progressive salt treatment, which I am NOT familiar with, so I will follow the instructions to the detail.  Something needs to be done soon, he looks weak this morning.  Darn, I should have quarantined longer than 2 weeks.  Captain has been thru everything and always seems so tough.

Last night I put in 1/3 of the recommended salt treatment (1T per 5 gal), so I will calculate what to add today to match Mindemae's post for Day 1.

There are plants in the tank, but they're just plants for them to eat, nothing we plan on keeping.

I fed anti-parasite food this morning, since Velvet is a parasite.  Captain (orange fish) didn't eat.  I've heard about hand-feeding, should I try that or just let him be??

I still don't have a heater but I should buy one.

Yes, she can re-use my pictures.  They are sad to look at, but may be helpful to others.

Thanks - I really hope this works!!
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 08:58:00 AM by Summer Time » Logged
Summer Time
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Re: Please Help my daughter's fish
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2010, 08:52:54 AM »

I took these this morning, using a flash.  Sometimes the flash makes things easier to see.

The white fish is swimming around fine today, but probably just has a milder case of whatever Captain has.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 10:14:43 AM by Summer Time » Logged
Summer Time
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Re: Please Help my daughter's fish
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2010, 11:19:10 AM »

I put more salt in this morning according to Mindemae's salt treatment - Day 1.

That's really a lot of salt.  Do I need to worry about the pH changing from all the salt?  I don't want to overdo it by worrying too much and then killing them with too much love.

I talked to the manager at Petsmart today and he was very helpful.  We discussed Velvet.  He said all their tanks are hooked up to the same system and that Petsmart as a company used to add salt to their water, but they don't any more because it was harmful to some of the fish hooked up to the system.  He said they treat all the tanks once a week with an anti-bacterial and anti-fungal medication.  I kindly suggested they keep an eye out for parasites as well.

He said I should not have added a fish to a fish that has been living alone for 5 years.  I hope that's not true.
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Mindemae
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Re: Please Help my daughter's fish
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2010, 11:45:17 AM »

Did you ask the manager if he has a fish tank himself particularly with goldfish?
You seem to be second guessing yourself.  You can't do that when it comes to sick fish because they go downhill very quickly and treating at the first sign of illness is usually the most successful.
Here is some literature to read on treatment of diseases including velvet.
(Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)
(Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.) (info also for velvet and other diseases)
Good luck with your fish!
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 11:50:18 AM by Mindemae » Logged
Summer Time
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Re: Please Help my daughter's fish
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2010, 12:32:39 PM »

No, I'm not second guessing myself, just worried and don't really understand all of this.  I am treating them like you recommended Smiley

I will be getting a heater later today.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 12:52:07 PM by Summer Time » Logged
Mindemae
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Re: Please Help my daughter's fish
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2010, 12:39:04 PM »

I know how you feel. Smiley
I was so worried when my fish had ich.  I hadn't seen ich on a fish for 6-7 years!! 
Gosh, my stomach was upset.  I was so scared I was going to lose my pleco or a couple of my goldfish.
I'm so glad that nightmare is over.  But be strong, you'll get through this.  I do think you caught it earlier this time with the second fish.  The first fish looks like he is very unhealthy and I'm worried he won't get any better.  BUT you never know, all you can do is try! Smiley
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Summer Time
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Re: Please Help my daughter's fish
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2010, 12:55:44 PM »

Yeah Smiley  The white fish is swimming around like 'what a beautiful day'...  But he does spend a lot of time next to Captain, like he's consoling him.

Sorry I've been asking so many questions.  I've never used a heater before, and the current temp is 72.  Should I raise it 1 degree per hour?  or 1 degree over 4 hours?  I want to make sure I am doing this correctly.  I think that's my last question for a while.  

No one did answer my earlier question - should I try hand feeding him?

I also want to get a good understanding so that I don't have to keep asking for help every time I make a move.  Smiley
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 01:01:00 PM by Summer Time » Logged
Summer Time
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Re: Please Help my daughter's fish
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2010, 01:45:04 PM »

Still thinking about this, Mindemae.   I called the manager because I wanted him to know that their fish may have a parasite, not to ask him how to treat it.  Also I don't want to get a new replacement fish from them, if they're all sick.  Sorry for any confusion.
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Nossie
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Re: Please Help my daughter's fish
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2010, 01:49:44 PM »

Raise the temp slowly, I think 1 degree per 2 hours maybe?

No, I don't think you should hand feed him, it might turn out stressful for him, since he's a bit weak... just try treating them and feeding like normal and hope that he'll get better and start eating on his own Smiley

A really good way to learn more about diseases is to simply read about them, that way you'll learn HOW the diseases work, and in turn understand how to treat and what to treat with! I've got a great book you could check out Smiley It's called "Manual of Fish Health" written by Chris Andrews (and a few others). It's got lots of good photos of all kinds of diseases, both lighter cases and a few really severe... you'll definitely learn! But the treatments may be a bit outdated, so focus on how the disease works, how it occurs, what it looks like etc.
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Summer Time
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Re: Please Help my daughter's fish
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2010, 02:08:47 PM »

Thanks.  I'll check out the book too.
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Mindemae
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Re: Please Help my daughter's fish
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2010, 02:14:45 PM »

Keep raising the temp a bit every hour until it reaches 80 degrees.  I raised my temps up to 86.  The raised temperature will help the parasite go thru it's lifecycle much faster, most can only be killed when they reach adulthood.  The salt sounds like alot but when treating a parasite they are strong and hard to get rid of.
The salt really isn't that much.  I put 3 TBS per gallon in mine to treat the ich!
I kept thinking gee I could set up a marine tank with all this salt! LOL!
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 02:20:15 PM by Mindemae » Logged
Mindemae
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Re: Please Help my daughter's fish
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2010, 02:16:28 PM »

Nossie,
I just ordered that book!  That is one I didn't have!
I'm sure I will love it!  I'm such a book lover I will read it cover to cover! Smiley
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Summer Time
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Re: Please Help my daughter's fish
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2010, 08:03:37 PM »

Got the heater, kind of cool.  Took 3 separate trips to Petsmart because I didn't like the first one I bought, and then had to go back again to get one that contained suction cups in the box.   Embarrassed

Now I'm going thru Dixie cups like crazy.  Should add those to the list of what to buy when setting up an aquarium  Smiley
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Summer Time
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Re: Please Help my daughter's fish
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2010, 10:14:01 PM »

Hi.  Captain is really weak.  The white fish seems fine, but does have more white spots on his tail and fin today.  Still don't think it's ich because they're not bright white spots.  Probably that terrible Velvet disease.

If he doesn't make it, should I continue with the progressive salt treatment, or put in a stronger medicine, like Maracide (malachite green)?

I had to unplug the filter because he was getting stuck by it.  Sad
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 10:45:29 PM by Summer Time » Logged
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