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Author Topic: why do we get it so very wrong?!  (Read 1007 times)
dulciean
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why do we get it so very wrong?!
« on: June 27, 2012, 06:02:54 AM »

after joining this community of wonderful fish friends , it got me to wondering Why the common understanding of goldfish is that they are easy to keep, and hardy, amd can be bunged into any old tank or bowl and it doesn't matter how big they need to grow?  it is so ignorant, and wrong! i did not have any idea of the care and consideration involved in proper and responsible goldfish keeping.
Makes me angry that there is such a common misunderstanding of these gorgeous creatures! also why do people think fishies are st*pid or have no memories when this is so obviously untrue?! Shocked
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sajacobs
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2012, 09:19:16 AM »

Really it's not just fish...humans take this attitude with all animals.  Recently I've been joining dog rescue groups on Facebook.  What goes on is horrible.  People don't care.  Animals are disposable.  Get tired of it...get rid of it.  Don't want to take care of it...do it half hearted....doesn't matter if the animal is suffering. 

Humans need to develop and realize that we are not the only ones with feelings and needs. 

All that said...things are changing.  The web opens people views. Sites like this provide the truth so the people who want to learn and change their ways can do so.  Change is slow though.
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Nossie
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2012, 02:18:15 PM »

They are very hardy fish if you compare to marine fish or the more sensitive tropical fish, but people have this d*mb idea that goldfish don't need much space because of the fact that the Chinese displayed their fish in bowls during parties. They kept the goldfish in garden ponds or large pots and took them inside to the porcelain bowls only temporarily, however westerners couldn't think that far it seems... Wink

It irritates me though how when a fish dies people go "It's just a fish." as if they're supposed to live really short. Some smaller tropicals do, but the fish I've had since I was a child are still alive and well, closing in on 10 years old (catfish, mollies, goldfish...).

People just need to do more research when it comes to animals (and even children!) in order to keep them healthy and safe Smiley
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scrivens345
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2012, 02:59:45 PM »

the british record for an aquarium kept common is 43 years, the fish was won at a fair; and believe it or not lived in a bowl Sad
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Vicloz2006
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2012, 04:25:26 PM »

Its true what sajacobs said most humans think animals are st*pid and have no feelings. This is not true. They do have feelings and they are smart. All I have to do is look into my cats eyes, or my dogs, or my rabbits eyes and I know they have feelings and intelligence, the look of recognition and love is all there. Same with my fish especially flash and Merle, they recognise me as soon as I walk in and they swim to me. I think it's sad that people think that way. I saw a cat today that look so ill, my partners mother is going to ring the RSPCA on them. I saw a comment on a post on Facebook that said 'society isn't judged on our behavior but on the way we treat our animals.' I believe this is so true.
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scrivens345
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2012, 04:31:59 PM »

lol Vicky, Flash & Merle know that you are the magic food goddess Grin
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Skwishee
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2012, 04:36:47 PM »

Completely agree with what's already been said.

Another common myth - 'fish grow to the size of their tanks', I have heard this a few times now since owning Lucky and I point out that while the fish do grow to the size of their tanks, it isn't a terribly good thing when this happens i.e. the fish is now stunted.

Another opinion that I have seen, is that people simply don't think fish grow. They look at a baby fish and think that's it, that it won't grow much more. I once asked someone how big their fish were -expecting a measurement- and they simply responded 'I don't know, fish size' as if there's some universal size all fish grow to or something.

Even showing someone in a fish shop; 'look this is a juvenile *points at young goldfish* and look this is the adults, see the size difference? *points at adult goldfish which are huge*', now you'd think this would get the message across.
But then at the till they said 'but those fish are okay in that small tank' and pointed at some guppies in a small tropical tank, so naturally I was like 'yes they're fine, but its a tropical tank and completely different fish'. So another aspect is that people could be wrongly assuming all fish are the same sometimes.

As Scrivens has mentioned due to fish being good at surviving, in some ways it's become their own worst enemy, because people see/hear stories of goldfish living for several years in terrible conditions -not realising the conditions are bad- they just assume that is the correct way to treat them.

I think as Nossie has said, people should research more. Or in the very least once they learn where they've gone wrong, to actually sort it out. Sometimes I think it's worse, when someone is told how to correctly care for their fish and then they proceed to ignore the advice and casually shrug it off with 'my fish is fine, it's really small right now, so it'll be okay'
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scrivens345
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2012, 04:54:34 PM »

well said  Skwishee; you have personal experience of the importance of "early years care"

would you keep your children in a broom closet, just because they fit? No, doubt they too would become stunted

The way my little 'uns are growing I'm thinking of getting a 600L  for 'em; God alone knows where i shall put it Grin
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Vicloz2006
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2012, 07:53:31 PM »

I know what you mean scrivens the way my fry have grown, they aren't even a month old yet and are currently chowing down on some cucumber. People see animals as a possession to have not a life to keep. I still can't believe I kept a shubunkin in a 15 litre tank I am sickened by myself for doing it. All I can do now is learn more about caring for them and make sure I look after these fish properly.
Oh and scrivens in addition to that I am also the miracle worker who makes night day and day night. Lol!
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Skwishee
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2012, 05:05:58 AM »

Vic I still can't believe I put two goldfish in a 21 litre tank and thought that was it! Then I couldn't understand why star had died!

A 600 litre tank sounds awesome scrivens! My wooden tank plan is going to hold around 1000 litres of water  Cheesy
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Nossie
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2012, 10:41:39 AM »

When I got my three first fantails I thought "ok, 10 liters per fish should be fine, rite?" and stuck them in a 30 liter tank. Ew :C
They were not fine, I only have one of the left now, the other two died really suddenly most likely from being stunted. I kept them in a small tank (upgraded to a 40 liter... didn't help) for "only" 8 months. It doesn't seem like that long, but it was enough to weaken them. They were just babies when I got them, no wonder Sad

I can't believe how fast my baby orandas are growing in comparison when they're given the correct amount of space! Shocked
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sajacobs
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2012, 11:00:15 AM »

As a newbie,

I think visual part of seeing a tank and measuring against a fish is deceiving.

I'm completely taken away how fast bertie is growing.  In 3 months he has grown 1.5 in length and he's very round - maybe .5 inch growth around the middle.  He just blossoming. I thought he would be very small for 6 months.  Nope he's growing.  That's been a big surprise. 

I think that when you get a dog...you know roughly how big it's going to get.  You see them out and about.  You never see goldfish so there's not a visual comparison. 

I think that's the hard part of setting up a tank.  The visual part may not match up with the stocking volume.

My friend (who helped me pick up the used tank) was blown away that only two goldfish can live in the tank.  There's that visual part again.
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Skwishee
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2012, 01:25:50 PM »

Yeah it's very true what you guys are saying, but even with visuals some people still don't get, as I mentioned before I even showed someone juvenile goldfish and their adult counterparts and they still pointed out the guppies saying 'oh but their fine'.

A lot of people think I'm bonkers for talking about building a pond or a 6 foot tank, but I'm just waiting for the day when my fish have grown and I can say 'there, now that is why I needed all this space!' Cheesy
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dulciean
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2012, 04:17:54 PM »

what a wonderful group of people on here... this is what inspired me to join the forum, i could see the intelligence and sensitivity happening here. if only more folk shared these thoughts on respecting life on our planet, things wouldn't be in the awful mess that it is.
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scrivens345
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2012, 04:41:27 PM »

go on youtube and watch the videos of goldies in 10 gallon tanks...if you point out that their tank's too small, they give you abuse
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Vicloz2006
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2012, 05:29:28 PM »

Really that is just pathetic. Have you had that happen to you?
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scrivens345
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2012, 05:49:48 PM »

oh yeah...some even brag that their fish are stunted..indeed, I had a reply today from a guy with a 10-gallon tank

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Vicloz2006
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2012, 03:45:40 AM »

Oh my god they weren't even making sense.
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Nossie
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2012, 06:14:05 AM »

People on youtube never had much brains. I'm embarrassed to just peek at the comments most of the time so I avoid the site altogether... D:
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Skwishee
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2012, 09:02:19 AM »

*Sigh* Those youtube comments reminded me another thing people do and that is the whole argument of -my fish is in a small tank, but that guy over there has his fish in a jar, and that goldfish is being used as food for a predator fish, which is way worse.
They then proceed to justify their small tanks with similar logic, of how 'worse off' the fish could be, rather than thinking about how better they could make it's life.

That person on youtube even says 'well i would say you treat your goldfish bad if you kept them in the bowls and small fish tanks.'
Err do they not realise 10 gallons IS a small fish tank, I wonder?

Scrivens do shed light on how one brags about stunting a goldfish? I didn't realise animal cruelty was a thing to brag about these days...
« Last Edit: June 29, 2012, 09:06:54 AM by Skwishee » Logged
scrivens345
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2012, 12:06:25 PM »

he's still going on about it..to him 10 gallons is not small Cry
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Nossie
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2012, 01:28:30 PM »

I wouldn't keep ANY fish in a 10 gallon tank! (maybe except bettas) Even my platies live in a 20 gallon Shocked
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Skwishee
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2012, 11:06:23 AM »

Oh dear, poor fish Sad
I suppose to me the 21 litre tank was loads of space, but since upgrading and seeing for myself how active lucky is, she uses the whole space in the tank, I can appreciate how the old tank was absurd in terms of size. So I suppose if someone doesn't bother upgrading, I can see how they'd think 40 litres was big...... It's a shame they aren't listening though.... If only pet stores sold larger aquariums  Undecided instead of these tiny tanks all the time!

I agree with you nossie, I think people recommended 60 litres to me for a betta, some kept theirs in slightly smaller tanks of 40 litres, so that's around 10 gallons  Smiley but I don't think anything else would do well in such a small space.

If only they used 100 litre tanks as beginner kits, rather than the 20 litre - 50 litres ones, it's weird?
When you think about it a bigger tank is easier in terms of water stability/ quality and the company's would make more? Or is the theory with them to sell thousands of small tanks, rather than hundreds of larger ones? I wonder.....
« Last Edit: June 30, 2012, 11:14:45 AM by Skwishee » Logged
scrivens345
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2012, 11:24:19 AM »

Years ago people kept Bettas in vases.Indeed you could buy "Betta vases" Undecided
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Nossie
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2012, 06:59:02 PM »

Bettas need about 2 liters/1cm adult fish body, meaning that one betta would be pretty comfortable living in a 15 liter tank even. They live in little mud puddles in nature anyway so they're used to the small space (and jump to another puddle if the one they live in dries out...).

100 liters is really small when it comes to tanks! I think that's the best and smallest beginner's size ever. Companies should stop making smaller tanks than that...
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fantailer
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2012, 05:20:16 AM »

The longer you own your tank the smaller it'll look.
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scrivens345
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2012, 07:58:33 AM »

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The longer you own your tank the smaller it'll look.
That is so  very true Wink
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sajacobs
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2012, 11:39:41 AM »

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The longer you own your tank the smaller it'll look.
That is so  very true Wink

That's just part of the multiple tank syndrome. Eyes balls get bigger and the tanks suddenly look smaller.
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Skwishee
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2012, 03:15:38 AM »

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Bettas need about 2 liters/1cm adult fish body, meaning that one betta would be pretty comfortable living in a 15 liter tank even. They live in little mud puddles in nature anyway so they're used to the small space (and jump to another puddle if the one they live in dries out...).


They live in rice paddies, the puddles there are far from small  Wink
In fact I have been told that male betta's can defend a territory size of up to one square metre, not really all that small in the end!

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« Last Edit: July 02, 2012, 03:25:42 AM by Skwishee » Logged
Nossie
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Re: why do we get it so very wrong?!
« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2012, 07:56:02 AM »

Sry, my bad Tongue
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