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Author Topic: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!  (Read 1088 times)
AZriverrat
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YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« on: April 27, 2012, 12:53:50 AM »

I recently upgraded to a larger tank, so I have been testing and doing frequent water changes, and using amquel plus as a water conditioner.

 For the past 2 days Ive been getting nitrate readings of 60-80, even after vacuuming the gravel during water changes.

 My two established tanks have also been reading high. Ammonia and nitrites are all reading zero.
So I tested my tap water today, and nitrates read 30ppm!!! We recently had quite a bit of rain, so Im thinking this is the cause. Ive never had this problem before.

My question is, has anyone used the API tap water filter? if so, what did it cost, and did you purchase it at your lfs, or order it by mail?

Im really worried, and hoping it will clear up SOON. Im calling ou local water company tomorrow to see if they know what is going on.
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Nossie
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2012, 02:29:58 AM »

That sounds pretty tricky! Shocked
Hopefully it'll "pass", since you mentioned it hasn't been like that before. I'm clueless as to how to handle this otherwise Undecided
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Skwishee
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2012, 03:09:06 AM »

Perhaps test your tap water with your own kit, sounds like it's the tap to me.... So definitely give the water company a call!
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pufferman
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2012, 12:58:41 AM »

ha they are gold fish they can handle it dont worry Wink i have seen salt wat tanks at 60 (fish only with no problems)
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fantailer
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2012, 07:30:16 AM »

You know goldfish are actually high matinence and even though they are hardy need big tanks and good water.
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scrivens345
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2012, 12:14:16 PM »

If the problem of nitrates persists add Tetra easy balance to the aquarium. This converts the "bad" nitrates into "good " nitrates.
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Nossie
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2012, 01:59:51 PM »

I agree with you, fantailer! Karma to that.

Just because goldfish can handle pretty extreme environments, it doesn't mean they should be kept in them.
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pufferman
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2012, 03:26:35 PM »

 if u take a golf fish out of some of the stores like walmart and petsmart you are doing them a favor even if u dont have the perfect system for them they will be much happier at your place compared to the stores. 
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pufferman
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2012, 03:37:17 PM »

o and buy PRIME by SEACHEM not api or that tetra  product prime cost a bit more but it takes less then half of the product to do the job
for 50 gallon tank you only need 1/4 cap or less  with API you need the whole cap

plus prime DETOXIFIES ammonia and all the other bad stuff
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Skwishee
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2012, 04:54:36 AM »

Pufferman, what do you mean when you say 'Even if you don't have a perfect system'?

I may have mis-interpreted your message (apologies if I have), but I feel if you're going to own a goldfish or any other fish, you should have the best possible tank to take care of that fish in, with it's basic requirements being met so it has suitable space according to it's stocking needs, good water quality and a varied suitable diet  Smiley

Besides fish are only at the store temporarily which is why they may be in smaller environments and highly stocked, they are in your home forever. If you can't provide a suitable home, then just don't buy them, you aren't doing them any favours by buying them and then placing them in an un-suitable environment.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 04:56:53 AM by Skwishee » Logged
scrivens345
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2012, 08:12:18 AM »

Pufferman
Prime may reduce/de-toxify nitrates if used in extremely large doses..


Tetra Easybalance :This product works by use of an ion-exchange resin. (Domestic tap-water softeners work using similar technology, as does cholestyramine a medicine that binds bile-acids)

I use it in all my tanks, and have found that other than the usual gravel vacuum I hardly have to perform any water-changes on my tanks

Nitrate compounds are still present but are no longer harmful to fish, BUT they still provide your live plants with nitrates to help them grow.

A word of caution...You will need to provide extra oxygenation of the tank-water,
« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 08:57:28 AM by scrivens345 » Logged
Nossie
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2012, 09:00:10 AM »

I agree with skwishee (karma for you Smiley).

I mean, why buy for example a guinea pig if you won't clean the cage or feed it anything but dry foods? Why get a dog if you don't intend to walk it? Same with fish, you want a happy, strong and healthy pet, not a temporary aquatic ornament. I'm pretty sure you're having lots of fun messing around the forum, considering you came back, creamkiller.
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pufferman
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2012, 10:43:09 AM »

well i dont know what the stores are like there but the chain stores here you will see see 2-5 fish DEAD in there system every time you go in so i am saying if u get a fish there is a better chance of the fish surviving at your home then it would be to be put in a system that already has 5 dead fish in it

the comet tanks around here have a about at least 50 fish in them in a 15 gallon and they have no chance at living if they get out of the system they are food so if u buy one to keep he would be better in a 5 gallon system with not perfect conditions then ending up as loinfish food.where he would get put in a saltwater tank  then would get stung with poison  then eaten  make sense now

scrivens345 if u look at a bottle of prime you have to use much less then the terta product for the same result for my marine tank a 5 gallon water change i only need THREE-FOUR DROPS one capfull will de-toxify my 50 gallon prime is what all the saltwater shop uses after they get shipments from around the world

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scrivens345
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2012, 11:36:34 AM »

At Puffer
Prime is a tap-water conditioner, NOT a nitrate binding solution.
..Tetra easy-balance is NOT a tap-water conditioner it is an ion-exchange resin and pH buffer.... they do different things , if you go to Seachem's own site : they state it MIGHT reduce nitrates slightly if you use a massive OVERDOSE.  Three or four drops of prime will do sod all to de-toxify your 50 gall

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Nossie
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2012, 11:38:22 AM »

I don't even feel like explaining this to you, it's common sense that you shouldn't buy a living creature that you can't take care of. Obviously you'll be torturing the poor things yourself whereas they'd die a lot faster in the pet shop, if it's as horrible as you say.
It doesn't matter in the slightest how the tanks look in the pet store as long as YOU do your best when taking care of your own pets. Or do you want your own tanks to look like the ones in the pet shop? That's what you end up with if you intend to keep your own fish in bad conditions.
I rather keep a few but immensely precious fish that I want to provide a wonderful home for rather than constantly struggling with bad waterquality and sick fish. I think you should consider doing the same.
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pufferman
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2012, 02:41:42 PM »

lol

4 drops is only for 5 gallon water change a capfull is for 50 gallons

we are taking about NITRATE not ammonia not nitrite a gold fish is still fine in 60ppm  that level will not hurt your fish in anyway

I know people that have not done a water change in a year in a fish only saltwater system and there fish are perfect all they do is top off the water when needed and take most of the algae out every few weeks (algae feeds on light and nitrates)

so her gold fish will not be harmed in 60ppm  nitrates if it was 1ppm ammonia that would be different Tongue
« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 03:10:08 PM by pufferman » Logged
pufferman
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2012, 03:08:38 PM »

Prime® also contains a binder which renders ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate non-toxic. It is very important to understand how those two functions work together. All dechlorinators operate through a chemical process known as reduction. In this process, toxic dissolved chlorine gas (Cl2) is converted into non-toxic chloride ions (Cl-). The reduction process also breaks the bonds between chlorine and nitrogen atoms in the chloramine molecule (NH2Cl), freeing the chlorine atoms and replacing them with hydrogen (H) to create ammonia (NH3).

Typically, dechlorinators stop there, leaving an aquarium full of toxic ammonia! Seachem takes the necessary next step by including an ammonia binder to detoxify the ammonia produced in the reduction process.
A single 100 mL bottle will treat 1000 US gallons of tap water

note exceptionally high chloramine concentrations, a double dose may be used safely. To detoxify nitrite in an emergency, up to 5 times normal dose may be used

remember most test kits dectect (NH3 and NH4) and NH3 is bad and nh4 is not so if your kit picked up nh4 your reading will be high but if u get a kit that only picks up NH3 it gives you a reading of only the bad ammona) so a CAPfull will still do 50 gallons

note the word MAY be used does not mean u  must use that much
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scrivens345
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2012, 03:33:48 PM »

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Prime® also contains a binder which renders ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate non-toxic. It is very important to understand how those two functions work together. All dechlorinators operate through a chemical process known as reduction. In this process, toxic dissolved chlorine gas (Cl2) is converted into non-toxic chloride ions (Cl-). The reduction process also breaks the bonds between chlorine and nitrogen atoms in the chloramine molecule (NH2Cl), freeing the chlorine atoms and replacing them with hydrogen (H) to create ammonia (NH3).

Typically, dechlorinators stop there, leaving an aquarium full of toxic ammonia! Seachem takes the necessary next step by including an ammonia binder to detoxify the ammonia produced in the reduction process.
A single 100 mL bottle will treat 1000 US gallons of tap water

note exceptionally high chloramine concentrations, a double dose may be used safely. To detoxify nitrite in an emergency, up to 5 times normal dose may be used

remember most test kits dectect (NH3 and NH4) and NH3 is bad and nh4 is not so if your kit picked up nh4 your reading will be high but if u get a kit that only picks up NH3 it gives you a reading of only the bad ammona) so a CAPfull will still do 50 gallons







RUBBISH! May as a modal auxilary means Must in those circumstances

Don't cut and paste stuff you don't understand, I have taught Chemistry at university level

De-chlorination/redox has nothing to do with it we are talking of viz  Cationic exchange of nitrate radicals

Seachem, admits it doesn't understand the chemistry, but the papers only note the reduction when both nitrites & nitrates are present.....the process is completely different to ion-exchange




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pufferman
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2012, 03:36:15 PM »

with API you must use there tap water conditioner stress coat and their ammonia lock to get the same results as PRIME

and added to that you have to use 3-4 times the amount of EACH product

REMEMBER  100ml treats 1000 gallons check your API and calculate how many ml you need to 1000 gallons let me know please Cheesy  
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scrivens345
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2012, 03:40:56 PM »

we are talking about NITRATES NOT tap-water conditioning

go away TROLL Roll Eyes
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pufferman
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2012, 03:54:24 PM »

yes they admit they dont know how the nitrites & nitrates reductions work but there is prove that it does

even if u take that away you would still need to use both tap water conditioner and  ammonia lock to do the same thing as prime

prime and  ammonia lock use basically the same method to get rid of r ammonia
« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 09:23:07 PM by pufferman » Logged
Skwishee
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2012, 04:40:01 AM »

I agree with Nossie.

There is no point buying a goldfish and sticking it in a 5 gallon system, where it will suffer needlessly. It's like buying a guinea pig and putting it in a hamsters cage and saying 'well its better there than in a shop'. It's not.
Yes goldfish are often used as feeder fish and yes some fish in a pet store may not be alive. But they could have died from being new stock, with the stress of transport from one place to another, it may not necessarily be the fault of the care the shop provides.

Now I am confused why you keep bringing up salt water tanks. Goldfish will become ill and potentially die if exposed to nitrates above 40ppm, it may well be 60ppm for a salt water tank, but goldfish don't live in salt water tanks XD
The maintenance for a salt water tank is going to be completely different to maintaining a freshwater goldfish tank. You really can't compare the two.
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Nossie
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2012, 05:48:48 AM »

In fact, salt water fish are even more sensitive to nitrates seeing as they come from a much larger and "cleaner" environment with a smaller concentration of fish - and therefore: waste - per cubic meter of water than freshwater fish do. Sea water also has a more stable water chemistry so the marine fish may display discomfort if they're kept in fluctuating water quality. I have no idea what this dude is talking about.

Karma to you, Skwishee Smiley
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pufferman
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2012, 07:23:05 AM »

u come on guys

u cant see the fact that i was letting the person know that there fish will be ok and not be to fightened to that the nitates being 60ppm and u have to admit their fish would not be harmed

as for the 5 gallon comment you can both tell me you would rather a fish be STUNG THEN EATEN BY A LION FISH / GRUOPER OR SOME CHILIDS then beening put in a 5 gallon system and have some high nitrates and no ammonia

most comets goldfish here are FOOD not pets
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Nossie
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2012, 08:34:34 AM »

Yes, the fish will, in fact, be harmed. Nitrates are toxic at a level of 40ppm, everyone who's even remotely interested in keeping fish correctly should know that. In the early 1900's they thought that it wasn't up until levels of 400ppm, but more recent scientific studies have shown that it has a bad impact on their immune system already at 40.

Yes, I'd rather have a goldfish be eaten by anything rather than being kept in a 5 gallon with poor water quality because they will actually be suffering in a 5 gallon tank for weeks, possibly months or even years. Do I need to explain why? Apparently yes. Goldfish are large fish that grow fast. Do you think it would be fun to be stunted? The internal organs keep growing when the fish doesn't. It will only be weakened further by the poor water quality. SPACE IS AS IMPORTANT AS WATER QUALITY. Would you like to be kept locked in a bathroom since you were 5 eating only unboiled macaroni until the day you drop dead?
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pufferman
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2012, 08:37:52 AM »

or are u guys telling me

when i was 8 and needed brain surgery (3 weeks hospital stay) was in a out of the hospital for a year and had to live 4 month of the year in a 20 foot trailer with 2 other people  in poverty(that would be worse conditions that the fish would be in) i should have just offed myself so i did not have to go though it

i still live below poverty now cause i am still disabled should i  keep living in a crappy small home with my 2 dogs from the shelter on the cheapest food and my fish or should i still finish myself off cause i dont live in a nice house and a working body like most of u do  you tell me

and yes i will live the rest of my life in a bachelor  pad eating nothin but noodles and rice for the rest of my life with my dogs and fish i could get a better place but i would have to get rid off my pets or off them if u think that would be best
« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 08:43:41 AM by pufferman » Logged
scrivens345
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2012, 12:19:24 PM »

The other thing that one needs to bear in mind with Prime, is that it gives false readings on some tests. You cannot for instance rely on any of the readings of an API test kit, instead you need to use a salicylate-based test.
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Nossie
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2012, 01:03:36 PM »

Obviously not, puffer Tongue
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pufferman
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2012, 09:12:45 PM »

well then you are taking about the same thing for the fish might be a small tank just like my small place he could use a bigger one just like i could he could have perfect health he whole life i have no chance ever about no seizures but i am glad i am here and not thrown in to the lions  like the fish might have had to him  but i bet if he knew the choices what of might happen lionfish or small tank what one he would pick death by loinfish is getting parilized by posion then eaten alive most time whole
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Nossie
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Re: YIKES! Sky high nitrates...In our tap water!?!
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2012, 03:11:44 AM »

No. You can take care of yourself, you know? You breathe the air that is readily available.
When it comes to fish you have to give them food, home and good water that resembles their needs. It's better if the fish can die relatively fast being eaten than if it has to struggle with illnesses you can't even see on it.

I am not feeling sorry for you. Everyone are having problems, you don't need to vent them in an ONLINE argument.
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