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Author Topic: Help Bocca!!!  (Read 850 times)
misslisa620
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Help Bocca!!!
« on: November 07, 2010, 06:22:56 PM »

Please help!  I have a black Moore I have had for four years and he is my favorite fish.  Ok here is my setup I have a few black Moores in a forty gallon tank.  A couple of days ago he started acting really lathargic so I kept an eye on him.  Well last night he was in the middle of the tank on his side.  I put him in a "hospital" tank and noticed his tail looks shredded but that is the only symptom of possible tail rot.  Thats it.  He can't get off his side though so I have to hold him to eat.  I have put in antibiotics into the tank and aquariem salt.  DOes anyone have any ideas of what this might be and what I can do.  I would really appreciate any advice. I really care about my fish.   Cry
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Mindemae
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Re: Help Bocca!!!
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2010, 08:17:44 PM »

Hello,
In order to help you better, you need to be more specific. Smiley
I have a couple of questions.
How many is a "few" black moors?
Did you test your water for ammonia, nitrites, pH and nitrates?
How much salt are you using?
Which antibiotic?
Do you have a heater?
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misslisa620
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Re: Help Bocca!!!
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2010, 09:30:07 PM »

I have a total of three.  I haven't tested the water and no heater but I actually have to add water to keep it cold enough.  I have put him in a three gallon tank away from the others.  This is what I have: Triple Sulfa Which is a Anti-Bacterial Fish Medication that "controls a wide variety of pathogenic bacterial infections (its a powder to put in the tank), I also have gel-tek Erythromycin  "Effective against bacterial infections (this is a gel they are supposed to eat), I have Melafix, and the salt.  Of course I haven't used all of these but I don;t know which one would be the best.  I have put 1 teaspoon of salt in the hospital tank.  He is alert and trying to move but he can't get out of the sideway position.  Its almost like his body is arching in like a C turn.  Its pitiful. Cry
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Mindemae
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Re: Help Bocca!!!
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2010, 10:36:31 PM »

I would try keeping his water level lower to help in his balance.
I would also add EPSOMS salts, 1/4 tsp per 1/2 gallon of water.
I would also get a heater and slowly heat the water to 80 degrees.
You could also add the melafix per directions on the bottle.
What do you normally feed him?
I'm thinking he may be constipated?
I wouldn't feed him anything but the antibiotic food right now.
Please post back and let us know how he is doing. Smiley

I also would test your water in the tank with the other fish asap.
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Nossie
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Re: Help Bocca!!!
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2010, 04:57:41 AM »

I was about to ask the same questions as Minde, but since you didn't answer them yet, I can't do much more to help |:

Except advice you to go get your water tested! You can buy a test kit of your own, which would be ideal Smiley Get one that contains tests for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. OR, bring a sample from each tank to your pet store and ask them to test it for you Smiley
You'll need these results to be able to figure out what's wrong with your fish! Most of the time, their problems are due to bad water quality. The kind of issue your fish has could be because of high nitrates, BUT, I doubt it since your tank is so nicely stocked.

Just answer the previously asked questions Smiley
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Hanna
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Re: Help Bocca!!!
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2010, 06:31:38 AM »

I agree, we need more specific information, as much detailed as possible to be able to help.
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misslisa620
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Re: Help Bocca!!!
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2010, 09:31:16 PM »

Hi everyone,
I will do appreciate you all helping. Sorry for the slow replies.  I am currently studnet teaching so I am pretty much at work all day.  Anyway, I have placed the Epson salt in his tank.  I also have been giving him Erythromycin drops.  It says on the bottle to place 5 drops in so the fish can eat them, but since he cannot eat I have been holding him up and guiding him to eat them.  I just want to know its getting in him.  I also have been doing the same thing with the fish food but I will lay off that if you think it may help.   I haven't tested the water but I will do so ASAP.  I'll go to Wal-Mart and get a kit.  I usually just feed them fish flakes. I was giving them some shrimp (dried) but my other fish couldn't digest it so I basically just stick with the flakes.  I use those things that are supposed to balence the ph levels in the tank and use water conditioner with the aloe in it.  I'm trying to give as much info as possible and really do appreciate your help.  Bocca is still on his side alothough he did wiggle around more when I was medicating him and for a split second he did find the strengh to swim to the bottom, but them POP right back on his side.........Its so strange he is responsive and breathing fine but on his side.  He is totally under the water though so I don;t have to worry about his eye(s) drying out.  I feel so bad for the little guy I can see his eyes looking  around.  As long as it seems like he may be getting better I want to do what I can but I don;t want him to suffer.  Thanks so much.
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Mindemae
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Re: Help Bocca!!!
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2010, 10:57:03 PM »

Some egg bodied fish cannot tolerate flakes as it is very constipating.
You might to switch to a high quality sinking pellet after this and vary the diet more.
Feed frozen peas with the skin taken off, the freeze dried shrimp is very good too, as it is higher in fiber.
Frozen Brine shrimp is another food you might want to add to their diets. Smiley
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Nossie
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Re: Help Bocca!!!
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2010, 01:41:19 PM »

You might want to check out this thread: (Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)
In the lower part there is a small article where I collected some different kinds of foods that goldfish will appreciate Smiley
Especially since you have fancy goldfish you should consider throwing the flakes out and switch to pellets right away... you should also start feeding them a variety of foods, like Minde suggested! Smiley There are more different kinds of fresh foods mentioned in the thread! Cheesy
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misslisa620
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Re: Help Bocca!!!
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2010, 08:22:56 PM »

Thank you both of you.  I will take your suggestions.  I didn't know that about the flakes.  Unfortunately Bocca did not make it.  I came home today and he was gone.   Cry  Thank you sincerely though for your help.  Um just so this doesn't happen again..........I got the food part and I also bought some really good water test strips.  Heres my issue though once I test it.....what then?  I saw the stuff to help the ph and nitrate levels but what about hard water, alkaline levels, and amonia?  I mean I understand where the amonia comes from but is there anything that can help?  Also, I have thought goldfish needed cooler water, but am I getting it right that they prefer warmer (70ish)  Huh  I don't want to create victums from my own ignorance.  It seems like there is a lot of contradicting info out there and you all really sound knowledgable.  Thanks.  And once more thanks for helping with Bocca. 
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Mindemae
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Re: Help Bocca!!!
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2010, 08:50:33 PM »

I am so sorry that you lost Bocca. Cry
Ok, the test strips are ok.....but the mastertest for freshwater liqiud test kit by API is really the best. Smiley
Goldfish prefer hard to alkaline water.
You really only need to test for pH (should be above 7.0), ammonia (should ALWAYS read zero), nitrites (should ALWAYS read zero), and nitrates (should be no higher than 40 ppm).
To lower ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates, you will need to do water changes.  Depending on how high the reading is you can do anywhere from 25%- 75% water change.
If you are getting an ammonia reading in an already established tank, this is not good.  You will need to do water changes, check your filtration and make sure it is working properly and add an ammonia absorber such as zeolite to the filter media, and a beneficial bacteria booster such as Stresszyme by API.  Everytime you do a water change or filter change add the bacteria right to the filter media.  Another thing that helps is extra water circulation in the tank through an air pump via an air stone of some kind.
Is your filtration strong enough?  What are the gallons per hour your filter produces?
Goldfish are coldwater fish, however I have found that the egg-bodied fish such as orandas and moors, are very sensitive to water temperature fluccuations.  You may want to purchase a heater for your tank to keep it at a constant temperature.  Swim bladder issues can be brought on by a water temperature change. Smiley
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Nossie
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Re: Help Bocca!!!
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2010, 03:05:06 AM »

Just one thing to add to Minde's post Smiley

Godlfish ARE coldwater fish because they can handle any temperatures, basically Smiley From only 10 degrees to at 30!
But this doesn't mean that they thrive in, let's say, 17 degrees (Celsius), only that they can handle, and survive in it. Tropical fish lose their colors and may even get sick if they spend time in lower temps, Goldfish on the other hand will just be less active, but if the temperature quickly changes to warmer, the goldies may end up with swim bladder disorders!
So if you want to keep your fish happy, buy a heater and set it for the mid to high 70's! Smiley (In Fahrenheit)

Hope it didn't confuse you! I'm not really used to talking in F-degrees yet :'D

Oh, and a question, what were the readings in the end? Could you post numerical results? Smiley Just so you know, goldfish accept a wide range of hardness and alkalinity c:
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misslisa620
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Re: Help Bocca!!!
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2010, 08:22:45 PM »

Okay I just did my test and it is not too bad...but it could be better.  The nitrites were at 0, hardness was around 250, alkaline was 240 and ph was 8.0. The nitrates though were high at 50 and I don't quite understand because last night I actually did probably a 50% water change.  Maybe it is the filtration system.  I have a Whisper 40 the large one but it only has one filter, not the double one.  The only thing is I am kinda limited there becasue I have the octagon shaped aquirium (40gal).  I change the filter frequently.   Shocked Whew this is quite an undertaking.  I know this sounds like a really d*mb question but I was reading some of your posts and many people said about their tanks are "cycled."  What exactly does that mean? Does that have to do with the good bacteria?  So I need to invest in a heater, air stone, Stresszyme by API, and zeolite.  Thanks for all the info Smiley  I wish Bocca could have survived. I really miss that little guy.  I feel like I failed him.  Well I can redeem myself by taking all your good advice AND absolutely resist the urge to buy another fish.  I see them at the store and want to buy one.  I also like to buy the ones I think nobody else will want .  I have one little black Moore with one eye and a Goldfish who I think maybe obsese (lol)   I have a weakness for the underdog or "underfish" in this case. Wink

 
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Hanna
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Re: Help Bocca!!!
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2010, 09:29:49 PM »

Hi Lisa,
here is a site you can read up and under the section "Goldfish water" it explains about the nitrogen cycle
(Link is not visible to guests. Please register to view.)

there are also so many posts we answered this question in the past, I'll try to find them, I'll also get a "sticky" made up but it will take a while
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April
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Re: Help Bocca!!!
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2010, 12:30:08 AM »

Hi Lisa, I am so sorry you lost your fish so very sad to lose these gentle little souls :*( you at least tried to do what you could to help him and I like what your wrote about taking the knowledge you've acquired and putting it to good use. May Bocca rest in peace in the big pond beyond ♥ There is something to be said about the underfish out there Wink had one in my hand today at the pet store and it was hard to walk away :S knowing your limits is good but sometimes it feels bad doesn't it. Take care of your other little babies - all the best Smiley
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Nossie
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Re: Help Bocca!!!
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2010, 01:40:53 AM »

I was wondering about your high nitrate readings, whenever it shows this much, change even more water, up to 75%, it won't hurt. Just try to keep the fresh water nearly the same temp as the water in the tank so you won't shock your fish Smiley
Anyways, the nitrates, how often and how big amounts are you feeding your fish? The problem may be that you're over feeding them a bit. Now when you have one fish there, it might be easier to control the amount of food he eats, I used to give 6 or so, pellets to my fish while I quarantine them Smiley (In the past, no more fish for me for now!!)
Getting some live plants to your tank may solve the problem as well! Smiley You could have a look at Java Fern, Anubias (bigger and smaller) and also Onion Plant, if you're interested Wink
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misslisa620
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Re: Help Bocca!!!
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2010, 07:47:23 PM »

Well I try not to overfeed them becasue I have one who I guess is a pig and if he overeats he bloats up.  This has only happened to him once real bad, but that was enough.  He went bellyup and I put him in the hospital tank to relieve the pressure.  From about eight until four he was bellyup and I was very concerned.  When I checked on him at 7 he was perfectly fine and looking for food.  So I am very carefule about this.  I feed once in am and pm.  I will try and change some water and take it again.  Thanks again for sharing all your knowledge.  Also I think I will get some live plants. Smiley

-April What a thoughful post.  thanks  Smiley
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April
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Re: Help Bocca!!!
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2010, 10:57:17 PM »

I have a deep bodied fish (Ryukin) and he did go belly up one day when drawing in too much air as he fed at the surface for food. He was cured with the frozen pea method and then I bought Nutrafin Max sinking pellets (except most of them don't sink! LOL) I  take a little tank water in a ramekin dish and let them soak for about 15 to 20 minutes. That way they become 'squishy' and he can eat them easily since they sink. It's really made him grow and enhance his colours naturally. Toss out the flakes if you've got a chubby fish Wink and lots of live/freeze dried foods nummer num num!!!
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misslisa620
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Re: Help Bocca!!!
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2010, 07:59:47 PM »

I will do that.  Thanks!  I got some shopping to do this weekend!!  Wink
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