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Author Topic: Hyper goldfish?  (Read 6870 times)
Skwishee
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Hyper goldfish?
« on: September 17, 2011, 02:29:06 AM »

Hey guys,

I was watching Lucky this morning and my goodness his being a little loopy.

His swimming around really fast along the back or front of the tank, occasionally swimming along the bottom, then head first up into the filter current and then struggles to stay in it. He'll go in the corner of the tank with his face almost touching the tank and swim up and down. Infact his swimming up and down quite a bit. He was just acting a bit strange really. I noticed him doing it a little last night (I swear he did a loop the loop) so I thought turning out the lights and that would maybe help him calm down, so the little guy could relax and sleep.

He seems to calm down a bit for a while and then go a little hyper again, I could almost swear that he chases his reflection...  and then a short while after he'll go back to picking at the gravel/plants/filter again like normal.

His back to normal now though, just seemed to be having a random moment.

Do you guys ever find that your goldfish seem to have crazy moments?

It's a little odd XD Especially when he was swimming head first into the filter current, crazy lil guy...

« Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 02:53:34 AM by Skwishee » Logged
Nossie
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2011, 04:08:12 AM »

He is irritated by the water, probably a pH or nitrogen problem. If he's trying to stay in the filter current, that's where the water moves the most, obviously, and carries the most oxygen, he's not having a good time in the tank if that's what he's doing :/
A fish isn't supposed to be thrashing about in the tank the way you describe if everything is well in the tank. This is a good time for a 50% water change. Buying a water test kit would help a lot too since that would help you figure out exactly what's wrong! Smiley

If you turn his tank light on, he can't possibly rest (or sleep) since he doesn't even have eyelids to close the light out, it's very important that fish get at least 10 hours of sleep every night, just like humans Smiley And turning the lights on wouldn't help him calm down in any way, since fish usually go hide in the dark when they feel unsafe or stressed. I think flipping the switch unnecessarily many times in a short period of time is something that will actually stress your fish even more.
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Skwishee
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2011, 06:54:25 AM »

His tank doesn't have a light, so when I say turned out the lights, I refer to the one in the room and I am careful with turning it on when it's already dark, usaully I just don't bother.
I'm not sure thrashing is the right word... more swimming up and down quite excessivley... Either way it's slightly odd behaviour...

He has calmed down quite a bit watching him now, but I'm gonna grab a water test kit anyway see what that comes out with, just to be safe!

« Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 07:01:22 AM by Skwishee » Logged
Goldiegirl
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2011, 09:55:35 AM »

I agree with Nossie...you have observed that your fish is displaying slightly erratic behavior that isn't normal. What you are witnessing with your fish is known as "flashing"- darting wildly around the tank, pacing the walls, doing tight circular motions in the water, etc. This means your fish is responding to some irritant in the water, as Nossie already stated, sorry to sound redundant. Always test the water whenever something seems just a little bit off, and tell us what results you got. You may be having an ammonia or nitrite spike. But, if your water parameters are all ok, (ammonia 0, nitrite 0, ph under 8 and above 7, nitrate under 40 ppm) than look closely at the body of the fish. Sometimes fish dart around and acty "hyper" when they are irritated by a parasite. Do you see any white spots, tiny black specks, or other signs of illness? When your fish flashes, it is usually one of the two problems: water quality or illness, usually water quality.

Good luck and keep us posted!  Smiley
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Skwishee
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2011, 11:41:04 AM »

Well I tested the water and the culprit was in fact nitrite, I've studied Lucky very closely, there's nothing abnormal on his body and he isn't showing any signs of nitrite poisoning.

I've partially changed the water and added a little non-iodinized salt to help with the nitrite, will be checking the PH balance to make sure the salt hasn't thrown it off (Just done so and its around 7.4/7.6). I'm also going to cut down on feeding to maybe once every two days, just to be safe.
It would seem the tank is still cycling, there were some nitrates present which means the bacteria is starting to do its thing. The ammonia levels were almost at 0, so I'm hoping the nitrite will begin to decline now as well.

I'll be checking the levels again on Monday and doing a water change again if the nitrites are still too high.
Phew, being a Sunday tomorrow I'll be home so I'll keep an eye on Lucky. Man this little guy has me worried Undecided

Thanks for your help guys, I just hope Lucky will be okay x
« Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 12:18:41 PM by Skwishee » Logged
Nossie
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2011, 12:48:12 PM »

He'll be just fine Smiley
However, the salt is slowing the nitrifying bacteria down! So that wasn't the best thing to do unless your fish actually has some kind of symptoms showing on him due to nitrite poisoning...
As we mentioned earlier, it can take several weeks for a tank to cycle, and it will be much harder to cycle a tank that's too small for the fish since there's nothing in it that can handle the waste load.

Good idea about the new feeding schedule though, it's a really good thing to be doing while the tank cycles so you won't overwhelm the system Smiley
50% water changes whenever the parameters are off is key when cycling with fish in the tank.
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keo1463
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2011, 04:04:16 PM »

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He is irritated by the water, probably a pH or nitrogen problem. If he's trying to stay in the filter current, that's where the water moves the most, obviously, and carries the most oxygen, he's not having a good time in the tank if that's what he's doing :/
A fish isn't supposed to be thrashing about in the tank the way you describe if everything is well in the tank. This is a good time for a 50% water change. Buying a water test kit would help a lot too since that would help you figure out exactly what's wrong! Smiley

If you turn his tank light on, he can't possibly rest (or sleep) since he doesn't even have eyelids to close the light out, it's very important that fish get at least 10 hours of sleep every night, just like humans Smiley And turning the lights on wouldn't help him calm down in any way, since fish usually go hide in the dark when they feel unsafe or stressed. I think flipping the switch unnecessarily many times in a short period of time is something that will actually stress your fish even more.


yea my goldie's did that because i have a high anmioa lvl so i did a water change and they have seemed to settle down a bit since
and they have now got white spot soo....  more mny out of the bank lol
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Skwishee
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2011, 04:28:14 AM »

Hey guys,

I checked on Lucky around 5.30am when I woke up for a drink and he was sleeping. Watching him this morning though, his still swimming erratically, occasionally going up into the filter. So I'm thinking of maybe doing a small water change (around 30%) every day now until these nitrites go down.

I was also worried with the nitrite levels being so high that he would get poisoned, hence adding the salt. Perhaps it was a bit much, I'll not add any more salt in that case. 

I'm also going to see if I can find something to help promote the bacteria that make the nitrites > nitrates.
Maybe getting an air stone, or something to increase oxygen could help out as well.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2011, 04:31:39 AM by Skwishee » Logged
Nossie
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2011, 08:01:19 AM »

An air stone would definitely help! Smiley You could later use the same one in the larger tank too! The beneficial bacteria need lots of oxygen to work effectively.

I bet Lucky will be just fine! When are you going to set up the bigger tank? Smiley
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2011, 11:04:48 AM »

Glad to hear you found out what the problem was! Nossie's right, salt slows down the cycling process a bit, but it also helps when a goldfish is suffering from nitrite poisoning. However, it sounds like Lucky's doing ok.  Wink

Air stones are great...they really encourage surface agitation, as well as add a nice bubbles in the tank. Mine has lasted for about 3 years? Maybe more. Plus goldfish love to swim around in the bubbles too!  Cheesy
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Skwishee
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2011, 11:06:04 AM »

Went on a mission for an air stone, there are now bubbles everywhere! Lucky is still being loopy, but hopefully with the extra oxygen and daily water changes the nitrites will go down. Poor guy, I hate seeing him like this.
Infact last night I had a dream that someone was trying to give me another goldfish, and I was like 'No! I can't take it, my tank hasn't cycled yet! I already have one in there, another one will be too much' XD Oh dear, silly dreams Wink

I did see whilst out a few products claiming to get rid of ammonia and nitrites because the product has live bacteria? I'm not really sure about it  Undecided I'd rather the tank sorted itself out, than me shoving in chemicals. Are the products very reliable?

As for the big tank, I'm still waiting to hear when my parents will have the chance to drive up. The latest I'll have it is by December, but the sooner the better really. Then I'll have the fun of doing this cycling all over again, except this time without the worry of a fish being in it, how people manage to cycle tanks with fish is beyond me  Roll Eyes I will never cycle a tank with a fish in it again after what poor Lucky seems to be going through!

Much thanks for all your help guys  Smiley
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2011, 11:15:18 AM »

Heeheehee I know how that is, about the goldfish dreams! I always dream I have to defend mine against racoons! Angry

Not sure what products you saw, but I know that Prime is the greatest invention since, like sliced bread, it converts ammonia and nitrite into a form that can be easily converted by your filter, it detoxifies nitrate, chlorine, and chlorimines, and I've been using it for years and I have to say it's really a great product. It helps make cycling safer while you have fish too. There are other products that help remove ammonia and nitrite as well, but I can't say how good they are because I just have used Prime and Amquel +.

Great to hear you are getting the tank soon!! That must be super exiting! But not the cycling part.  Undecided
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Skwishee
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2011, 11:27:05 AM »

I know, I get excited when I think how Lucky can have a friend and I'll get to watch them grow up! Then when their older I can feed them from my hand and sit and talk to them, draw them, feed them veggies! It was so fun to watch Lucky attack the heck out of some brocolli the other day.

Speaking of veggies, would it be best to feed Lucky just veg for a while? It'll stop any more ammonia being created or just stick to the flakes and use veggies as more of a treat?

The products I mention were like these;
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At the moment Lucky seems to be staying quite close to the front of the tank. I hope I haven't created too much current with the air stone? I got quite a nice 6 inch one, just hoping it's not too much.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2011, 12:52:06 PM by Skwishee » Logged
Nossie
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2011, 03:24:08 PM »

I'm so glad to hear about the progress Smiley

Chemicals... I added "fluid bio filter media" by Easy Life the first day I set the tank up, I let that sit for 3 days and let three of my fish into the tank, tested the ammonia, changed some water added more of the bio filter booster, let it sit for another few days while testing ammonia every day. I let in the last 3 fish and suddenly... Ammonia was gone, nitrite was gone and the nitrates were very low *__* Thanks to that stuff, my fish were perfectly safe and happy, and the tank cycled in 10 days c: Oh, and when I let in the fish, they weren't stressed at all! They started looking for food right away Smiley

So that's what I'd recommend Smiley I'll add a picture of the bottle, (I still use it, it's like... it's my holy water for fish... x'D)

About the current, since you have a common goldfish, that won't be a problem Smiley Common goldfish are bred from river carp, so they're "designed" to handle rough currents Wink I think he's just stressed from the cycling, really but that won't be a problem if you'll keep taking such good care of little Lucky Smiley

[image]
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Skwishee
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2011, 03:35:49 PM »

Hmmm I've not seen anything like that around here? But cycling a tank in 10 days is pretty awesome! This one has been going for just over 3 weeks now.

As for chemicals the aquarium shop will be open tomorrow! Todays mission meant walking 2 miles (and back) to Pets at Home and The Range because the aquarium shop down the road is closed on a Sunday XD So I'll pop down tomorrow and ask the man there, he seems nice, he even sold me the water testing kit for 30 instead of the price tag which said 34.99  Cheesy

I'll ask about the Easy Life but I didn't see any bottles like that when I was out earlier. Might give the Stress Zyme a go, or a similar product... But glad to hear the currents fine! I just got a bit worried. It was hard to tell if he was struggling with the current or just acting up because of the stress.

Water test and water change tomorrow morning, then I'll head to the shops before work Smiley

Thanks for all your help Noss, your a star x
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Goldiegirl
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2011, 07:55:55 PM »

About the veggies, I would think they would produce ammonia as well (maybe not quite as much as the flakes), but it wouldn't hurt for your fish to go vegan for a while.  Wink

I would also give the Stress Zyme (or a similar product) a go to keep the water safe for dear little Lucky while it's cycling. 
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Nossie
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2011, 02:49:50 AM »

Aww, thanks! Smiley

If you can't find the Easy Life, do use Stresszyme, I've had that one too, but not while cycling, it was used only for water changes, but probably will do the trick too! Keep us updated! Smiley
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Skwishee
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2011, 03:06:04 AM »

Well I've just done my water test, Lucky just stared at me shaking test tubes vigorously XD

Ammonia has gone down again, so it's now around 0.25ppm (almost gone yay!), Nitrites are still way to high, but Nitrates are currently at 5.0 ppm so at least there's some there.

So I think shops should be opening now its 9am where I am, so I'll pop out to get the stress zyme and add that once I've done my 30% water change for the day. It turns out that leaflet with my water test kit recommends stress zyme anyway! (Must be the same company).

[Edit]

So I've changed the water and added the Stress Zyme. On the back of the bottle it says for a new aquarium to add the appropriate dosage on the 1st, 7th and 14th day.
So if I do just that, having added it today, then more on Sunday and then again the following week, should I still continue doing daily water changes? I'm worried the constant water changes will mess with the bacteria in some way, maybe I should just keep an eye on Lucky and give the bacteria chance to do its thing?

[Update]

So watching Lucky after the water change and stress zyme, he actually seemed to be normal, casually swimming around, foraging in the gravel and the filter, he even raced through the bubbles a few times! (I assume he enjoys it because he did it multiple times), but after a little while his gone back to being loopy again *sigh* I hate seeing him like this, he was swimming head first into the filter for a bit and his now erratically swimming around the front of the tank. I don't know what more I can do for him. Sit and wait and let the bacteria do its thing I suppose....

[Update 2]

So its sometime after lunch now and watching Lucky he seems to be better now *fingers crossed*. He's acting pretty normal, thank goodness, such a relief, although he keeps pecking at the filter? Do you guys find the fish forage for food at the filter? It just seems a little random.

At least his calmed down! Goodness, if this is how much I worry about fish I am going to make one paranoid parent XD Haha I even thought I'd play some calming music, music therapy on a fish, worth a go! Which made me think, I know fish hear sound, but do they respond to music?

Anyway I will continue monitoring Lucky until I go to work.

[Update 3]

So typically half an hour before I have to go to work, the fish is going berserk again, it's almost like he has 'episodes' of flashing, his parading up and down the front of the tank right now, hopefully he'll calm down like he did before!
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 08:51:31 AM by Skwishee » Logged
Nossie
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2011, 09:39:01 AM »

You should definitely keep the water changes up!! It won't mess with the cycle since the bacteria will live in the filter and gravel anyway, it'll just keep your fish safe since the cycle will NOT go as it's supposed to being such a small tank with such massive amounts of waste.

My goldfish do nibble at the filter Smiley Especially at the creases where there's some green algae growing.
I haven't heard anything about fish and music actually... maybe you should give it a try? Mine seemed very interested in the TV while that was within their view... Grin

The water is still really bad with the ammonia being 0.25, and both nitrites and nitrates showing it's pretty natural that Lucky is acting stressed :/ All you  can do in the end is be patient, daily water tests + water changes Smiley
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Skwishee
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2011, 02:11:15 PM »

Ah okay, I'll continue doing the changes and testing, I was just a little un sure. I'll add some more of the stress zyme on Sunday. Poor Lucky, I think he deserves a little brocolli tomorrow as a treat.

Might research into the idea of music, I had Ludovico Einuadi playing all afternoon, very nice piano music Smiley I wonder what it would hear like to them being in the water...
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 02:13:16 PM by Skwishee » Logged
Goldiegirl
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2011, 03:52:28 PM »

I know this is gonna sound weird but my goldies get really unhappy if I play any kind of harsh sounding/vigorous music. XD They seem to love soothing classical, so I leave the radio on all day whenever I'm gone.  Tongue
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Skwishee
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2011, 06:21:45 AM »

Interesting about the music, maybe goldfish have preferences like people  Cheesy

I bear good news!!

Yesterday evening I was really worried as the levels looked something like this;
Ammonia; was between 0 and 0.25 (it was a lighter colour than 0.25 but not as yellow as the 0 mark).
Nitrites; were still ridiculously high around 5 ppm
Nitrates; had shot up to around 20/30 ppm

But this afternoon, my goodness, I can't quite believe the difference a day makes;
Ammonia; hasn't changed much, from yesterday still not yellow enough Undecided
Nitrites; have shot down and are now around 0.25/0.3 ppm!
Nitrates; haven't change either, still around 20/30ppm

Lucky is still flashing occasionally, but on the whole he seems a lot calmer, hopefully when I add some more stress zyme on Sunday, it'll give him a little boost. It's just a relief to see the nitrites down!
A nice lilac-blue colour instead of purple! Hooray!
It's also interesing that when I am changing the water (I usaully let the water sit for 10 minutes or so before adding it back in, so it can get to room temperature) Lucky becomes very relaxed, I wonder why?

Yesterday Lucky throughly enjoyed his brocolli, so will be treating him again tomorrow! It was nice to see him calm as he nibbled away!

Thanks for all the help and support you've been giving me guys, I really appreciate it x
« Last Edit: September 22, 2011, 08:44:21 AM by Skwishee » Logged
Goldiegirl
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2011, 10:06:25 AM »

Good to hear that your cycling process is getting a little bit more manageable! It's always a relief to know that your fish is doing better after having a bout with a parameter spike.  Smiley

Keep us posted about little Lucky!  Wink
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Nossie
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2011, 10:20:18 AM »

The cycling is going forward! Yay! Once that's done everything will be a lot easier since there won't be the pesky ammonia/nitrite there to poison the fish. Then you can just take it easy until your tank gets there Wink
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Skwishee
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2011, 01:24:10 PM »

Thanks you guys, I'm just so relieved! I woke up in the middle of the night once like 5am or something crazy and the filter was being weird, making strange sounds and I was like NOOO, so paranoid Lucky had died and been sucked into the filter like Star, I rushed out of bed and he was fine, swimming around casually.  It was just the filter being weird. Took me a while to get back to sleep after that XD

His still being a little hyper, swimming like crazy through the bubbles at the moment, I caught him swimming into the filter a little just now as I got in from work, but I imagine the crazy behaviour will die down once the tank's balanced itself out.
I really think it was all down to the stess zyme, thank goodness I got it!

Will keep you updated guys, I'm going to carry on with my water tests and changes, I imagine I can stop the daily water changes once ammonia and nitrites reach 0, then test it once every two days for a week or so, just to make sure its truly stable.
Then it should be okay to be doing test/change the water and add stress zyme once a week.

Beginning to feel like a proper little fish keeper now!

Thanks guys, will keep you posted on how things go.
In the mean time, here's a pic I snapped of Lucky during one of his calm moments. He loves to look at his reflection sometimes Smiley

One interesting thing with Lucky is his dorsal fin, the mid sections missing (just incase you were wondering) I'm not sure what happened to him, he was like this when I adopted him from the play centre (where he was left after a fun fair) I imagine its either a deformitiy or a bigger fish bit it off? It looks like he has a little spike on top of his head though, bless him!
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fantailer
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2011, 03:32:35 PM »

You should keep an eye on his fins to see if he looses more.
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Nossie
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2011, 02:44:59 AM »

That dorsal is just a deformity Smiley Usually the goldfish sold in pet shops (or given away in fairs) are culls, so they all have minor deformities. Some fancies for example can have one caudal lobe a bit droopy, or smaller than the other, I've had a few that were missing one of their anal fins (which should always be paired according to show standards).
It's nothing to worry about at all, just love little Lucky for who he is Wink

Sounds like a good plan though about the water testing Smiley Later when you'll have the bigger tank (after it's cycled) it's okay if you test every week, and then notice on an average how high the nitrates get, with that you can figure out how much water to change out at a time Smiley
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Skwishee
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2011, 03:53:34 AM »

Yeah I didn't think the dorsal fin was anything to worry about because the skin in between looked so healthy Smiley

So with regards to the nitrates, how do you know how to much to take out? Is there a calculation to figure it out?
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fantailer
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2011, 04:32:53 AM »

AWESOME!!!! Cheesy
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Skwishee
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Re: Hyper goldfish?
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2011, 04:42:06 AM »

Haha that's a random out burst fantailer, have you had goldfish lose fins before?

I'm also beginning to wonder if Lucky is a girl... how old do goldfish have to be before you can figure out their gender?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2011, 05:13:09 AM by Skwishee » Logged
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